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I’m pretty pro WFH. It’s undeniably great from an employee’s perspective. However I’m pretty annoyed and disappointed by the lack of honesty around its costs.

I’m pretty pro WFH. It’s undeniably great from an employee’s perspective. However I’m pretty annoyed and disappointed by the lack of honesty around its costs. There’s significant costs and benefits to remote work. COVID was a little bit of a cheat code for WFH. We all built up relationships and repertoires during office work which made the transition to remote much much easier. Remote work is particularly difficult for onboarding new members and especially for juniors. Slack and Zoom are vastly inferior to face-to-face. Remote work is great for talented seniors. But there is an undeniable cost to the team. Of course there are spectacular benefits to remote work. For example being able to hire people you couldn’t otherwise hire! I’m not anti-WFH. But I am annoyed at all the internet threads that act like remote work is all roses with zero costs. And especially annoyed at folks who only look at how impacts themselves and not the team. It’s totally reasonable for WFH to be net benefit in some cases and net negative in others. I expect downvotes for this. But that’s super lame. Would rather people engage thoughtfully. Alas.

somekyle 2y ago
I feel similarly. I've been pure remote since COVID. I used to complain about having to come into the office just to stare at a screen quietly next to people. Being remote has been great in some ways, but I've really noticed the reduction in connection to coworkers and the major decline in informal collaboration. I've also had to dedicate a room of my house as an office (have kids, so working from any common space is fully impossible). My life just feels smaller now, when most days instead of traveling through the city on a busy train to meet up with dozens of collaborators, discuss, eat together, I start my day by sitting down in a small room by myself in front of a screen. Work is what I do with most of my days. I'd like it to be as engaging and as socially connective as possible. I don't like commuting, but I'm planning for my next job to be in person.
happytoexplain 2y ago
>I am annoyed at all the internet threads that act like remote work is all roses with zero costs. This is an exaggeration. What people mostly describe is the enormity of the benefits to costs (for some positions and some people). >It’s totally reasonable for WFH to be net benefit in some cases and net negative in others. This is acknowledged. But it does not imply any reason to enforce a blanket policy. >I expect downvotes for this. But that’s super lame. Would rather people engage thoughtfully. Alas. I really wish we could avoid this tone of petty superiority.
- forrestthewoods 2y ago
  > I really wish we could avoid this tone of petty superiority. I wish it wasn't an effective strategy to minimize downvotes. But my anecdotal experience is that it helps! My comment was in the negatives when I edited to add that line.
cruffle_duffle 2y ago
> I expect downvotes for this. But that’s super lame. Would rather people engage thoughtfully. Alas. You'll never hear some of these downvoters say it out lot but a lot of people made some really poorly thought out real estate transactions during the pandemic assuming that their WFH gravy train would keep going forever. I know many people who up and sold their house and moved way out into the sticks thinking "this is the new normal". Not sure what these people were thinking, but then again there wasn't a whole lot of thinking going on anywhere during that time. It's kind of hard to feel sorry for these folks either. They were incredibly privileged that a "once in a lifetime global pandemic" granted them such ability. If the government declared all their cushy tech jobs "non essential" (which most tech companies are) and forced them all into unemployment like the average working person, I'm pretty sure their entire take on the last 4 years would be entirely different.
- fnfjfk 2y ago
  Does that apply in this case? Amazon is moving from 3 days to 5 days in Seattle. If you moved to Montana, that was already a problem.
- consteval 2y ago
  I think this comment really highlights the costs and culture around RTO. You're essentially admitting that going RTO can easily be the equivalent of a 50%+ reduction in Salary. I've found that typically RTO proponents are not very honest about the true cost of their position. Not the cost of driving, the cost of lost time, and especially not the cost of high COL areas that offices are typically in. I think some of this dishonesty stems from self-preservation. As in if they admit the cost, they have to admit they're getting shorted, and nobody wants that for themselves. If moving "to the sticks" was such a viable cost saving strategy, it seems to me you're burning Salary for the sweet, sweet opportunity to join a Teams call in the office. If anything, these types of comments illuminate the potential hard benefits of a WFH job.
xedrac 2y ago
I tend to agree with this. The spontaneous face-to-face opportunities, like "Hey, what do you think about..." are what I miss the most. I didn't realize how much I learned just interacting with my coworkers so frequently. Also, there's something to be said about keeping your home space completely separate from work. That being said, I still love WFH, and don't think we have to be completely black or white on the matter. I personally would love a 2/3 or 3/2 day split between office and home, assuming my coworkers were on the same schedule. Or even an every other week toggle between office and WFH.

somekyle 2y ago

I feel similarly. I've been pure remote since COVID. I used to complain about having to come into the office just to stare at a screen quietly next to people. Being remote has been great in some ways, but I've really noticed the reduction in connection to coworkers and the major decline in informal collaboration. I've also had to dedicate a room of my house as an office (have kids, so working from any common space is fully impossible). My life just feels smaller now, when most days instead of traveling through the city on a busy train to meet up with dozens of collaborators, discuss, eat together, I start my day by sitting down in a small room by myself in front of a screen. Work is what I do with most of my days. I'd like it to be as engaging and as socially connective as possible. I don't like commuting, but I'm planning for my next job to be in person.

happytoexplain 2y ago

>I am annoyed at all the internet threads that act like remote work is all roses with zero costs. This is an exaggeration. What people mostly describe is the enormity of the benefits to costs (for some positions and some people). >It’s totally reasonable for WFH to be net benefit in some cases and net negative in others. This is acknowledged. But it does not imply any reason to enforce a blanket policy. >I expect downvotes for this. But that’s super lame. Would rather people engage thoughtfully. Alas. I really wish we could avoid this tone of petty superiority.

forrestthewoods 2y ago
> I really wish we could avoid this tone of petty superiority. I wish it wasn't an effective strategy to minimize downvotes. But my anecdotal experience is that it helps! My comment was in the negatives when I edited to add that line.

cruffle_duffle 2y ago

> I expect downvotes for this. But that’s super lame. Would rather people engage thoughtfully. Alas. You'll never hear some of these downvoters say it out lot but a lot of people made some really poorly thought out real estate transactions during the pandemic assuming that their WFH gravy train would keep going forever. I know many people who up and sold their house and moved way out into the sticks thinking "this is the new normal". Not sure what these people were thinking, but then again there wasn't a whole lot of thinking going on anywhere during that time. It's kind of hard to feel sorry for these folks either. They were incredibly privileged that a "once in a lifetime global pandemic" granted them such ability. If the government declared all their cushy tech jobs "non essential" (which most tech companies are) and forced them all into unemployment like the average working person, I'm pretty sure their entire take on the last 4 years would be entirely different.

fnfjfk 2y ago
Does that apply in this case? Amazon is moving from 3 days to 5 days in Seattle. If you moved to Montana, that was already a problem.
consteval 2y ago
I think this comment really highlights the costs and culture around RTO. You're essentially admitting that going RTO can easily be the equivalent of a 50%+ reduction in Salary. I've found that typically RTO proponents are not very honest about the true cost of their position. Not the cost of driving, the cost of lost time, and especially not the cost of high COL areas that offices are typically in. I think some of this dishonesty stems from self-preservation. As in if they admit the cost, they have to admit they're getting shorted, and nobody wants that for themselves. If moving "to the sticks" was such a viable cost saving strategy, it seems to me you're burning Salary for the sweet, sweet opportunity to join a Teams call in the office. If anything, these types of comments illuminate the potential hard benefits of a WFH job.

xedrac 2y ago

I tend to agree with this. The spontaneous face-to-face opportunities, like "Hey, what do you think about..." are what I miss the most. I didn't realize how much I learned just interacting with my coworkers so frequently. Also, there's something to be said about keeping your home space completely separate from work. That being said, I still love WFH, and don't think we have to be completely black or white on the matter. I personally would love a 2/3 or 3/2 day split between office and home, assuming my coworkers were on the same schedule. Or even an every other week toggle between office and WFH.