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Layoffs are bad for the public image, stockholders, etc. If people quit themselves, they can get rid of a lot of workforce without having to lay them off. The

Layoffs are bad for the public image, stockholders, etc. If people quit themselves, they can get rid of a lot of workforce without having to lay them off. They lose the chance to choose who stays and who goes, but if your bonuses are tied to quarterly results, it doesn't really matter for a quarter or two.

dvfjsdhgfv 2y ago
Yes and no. For unskilled labor, probably it doesn't matter that much. For complex projects such as in AWS you need months or sometimes years to onboard new talent and make them catch up with the rest of the team (assuming there is a "rest").
0xbadcafebee 2y ago
They get rid of people who might need extra considerations for working, and they keep the employees who they can reliably push around or will compromise in favor of the company. Of course they also lose out on top talent that will go where someone gives them flexibility. But I think they prefer obedience to talent.
bilbo0s 2y ago
Not only that, but Amazon is of such a scale and such a segment, that hording high end intellectual capital is not likely to have any great impact on their results in any case. They're the closest thing in today's world to what would be in any sci fi dystopia world a global company that runs everything from taxis to health care. There just are not any other companies like Amazon, with the exception of Alibaba which is like Amazon on steroids. At this point, the use of companies like Amazon or Alibaba is kind of necessary to get by for most people. Even those who don't use it, are using it indirectly. Via using apps and sites running on Amazon. Via going to stores supplied by Amazon. And on and on and on. The tentacles are everywhere.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Amazon doesn’t “run” (control) any market. They have a hand in retailing, logistics, web services, media, etc, but in each one, there are notable competitors. Not unlike other conglomerates, like Berkshire. But AWS’ big profit margins give Amazon a big upside.
dopylitty 2y ago
To be honest forcing your employees into the office looks really desperate. It makes me think Amazon is in real trouble if they can’t create a website remotely and need to physically force employees into a big building to try to get them to produce. That’s not good for public image and if I were a shareholder I’d be planning for an exit.
- drdrey 2y ago
  is that what Amazon is doing? “create a website”?
  - Insanity 2y ago
    My thoughts exactly, we actually _maintain_ a website, not create one! Jokes aside, I work at Amazon and complexity varies between teams.. but there are few things that can’t be done remotely. Imo the hybrid model works best.
- digging 2y ago
  > To be honest forcing your employees into the office looks really desperate. To some of us, but not everyone. It may look less desperate than layoffs. It can be postured as happening for any number of strong-handed reasons and be called an act of powerful leadership, even if it's just desperate and stupid. Besides, other huge companies have done it already.
  - mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
    Dell did RTO earlier this year and all the coverage I saw made their leadership look weak - the coverage was all about most employees rejecting leadership's push. I didn't see any positive coverage.
- hash07e 2y ago
  Well they can create a cloud to work remotely… /s
reginald78 2y ago
Plus this should disproportionately target the disabled and working parents without triggering any discrimination lawsuits. Those groups have higher healthcare costs so even more savings.
nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
There are loads of employees in orgs like Professional Services/Solution Architects and other Sales orgs that were hired remotely and live in locations far from any office. This is clearly intended to increase attrition.
xyst 2y ago
RTO mandates are a way to cut the best talent. In a previous job, team was delivering on initiatives and running smoothly. Then came the soft RTO policies and then mandated RTO policies. Best/good people on the team dropped. Myself included after 3 on-shore devs self “retired”. Team then consisted of soldiers, and a couple of off shore devs that did the bare minimum (ie, on shore fixed many of their mistakes, releases taking much longer than usual). Velocity of team sharply dropped. Organization and team turn over increased greatly. Occasionally, get a ping from hiring manager to see if I’m interested in rejoining. But, RTO is still in effect so I decline any further discussion

dvfjsdhgfv 2y ago

Yes and no. For unskilled labor, probably it doesn't matter that much. For complex projects such as in AWS you need months or sometimes years to onboard new talent and make them catch up with the rest of the team (assuming there is a "rest").

0xbadcafebee 2y ago

They get rid of people who might need extra considerations for working, and they keep the employees who they can reliably push around or will compromise in favor of the company. Of course they also lose out on top talent that will go where someone gives them flexibility. But I think they prefer obedience to talent.

bilbo0s 2y ago

Not only that, but Amazon is of such a scale and such a segment, that hording high end intellectual capital is not likely to have any great impact on their results in any case. They're the closest thing in today's world to what would be in any sci fi dystopia world a global company that runs everything from taxis to health care. There just are not any other companies like Amazon, with the exception of Alibaba which is like Amazon on steroids. At this point, the use of companies like Amazon or Alibaba is kind of necessary to get by for most people. Even those who don't use it, are using it indirectly. Via using apps and sites running on Amazon. Via going to stores supplied by Amazon. And on and on and on. The tentacles are everywhere.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
Amazon doesn’t “run” (control) any market. They have a hand in retailing, logistics, web services, media, etc, but in each one, there are notable competitors. Not unlike other conglomerates, like Berkshire. But AWS’ big profit margins give Amazon a big upside.

dopylitty 2y ago

To be honest forcing your employees into the office looks really desperate. It makes me think Amazon is in real trouble if they can’t create a website remotely and need to physically force employees into a big building to try to get them to produce. That’s not good for public image and if I were a shareholder I’d be planning for an exit.

drdrey 2y ago
is that what Amazon is doing? “create a website”?
- Insanity 2y ago
  My thoughts exactly, we actually _maintain_ a website, not create one! Jokes aside, I work at Amazon and complexity varies between teams.. but there are few things that can’t be done remotely. Imo the hybrid model works best.
digging 2y ago
> To be honest forcing your employees into the office looks really desperate. To some of us, but not everyone. It may look less desperate than layoffs. It can be postured as happening for any number of strong-handed reasons and be called an act of powerful leadership, even if it's just desperate and stupid. Besides, other huge companies have done it already.
- mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
  Dell did RTO earlier this year and all the coverage I saw made their leadership look weak - the coverage was all about most employees rejecting leadership's push. I didn't see any positive coverage.
hash07e 2y ago
Well they can create a cloud to work remotely… /s

reginald78 2y ago

Plus this should disproportionately target the disabled and working parents without triggering any discrimination lawsuits. Those groups have higher healthcare costs so even more savings.

nyarlathotep_ 2y ago

There are loads of employees in orgs like Professional Services/Solution Architects and other Sales orgs that were hired remotely and live in locations far from any office. This is clearly intended to increase attrition.

xyst 2y ago

RTO mandates are a way to cut the best talent. In a previous job, team was delivering on initiatives and running smoothly. Then came the soft RTO policies and then mandated RTO policies. Best/good people on the team dropped. Myself included after 3 on-shore devs self “retired”. Team then consisted of soldiers, and a couple of off shore devs that did the bare minimum (ie, on shore fixed many of their mistakes, releases taking much longer than usual). Velocity of team sharply dropped. Organization and team turn over increased greatly. Occasionally, get a ping from hiring manager to see if I’m interested in rejoining. But, RTO is still in effect so I decline any further discussion