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I think the purpose is to terrorize your opponents. Sometimes getting seriously wounded is even worse than getting killed, from the perspective of Hez. Now they

I think the purpose is to terrorize your opponents. Sometimes getting seriously wounded is even worse than getting killed, from the perspective of Hez. Now they need to handle thousands of wounded members, which is much more expensive than dead ones.

jsheard 2y ago
Who said the injured are all Hezbollah members? From the above Guardian coverage: "Among those killed is an eight-year-old girl from Bekka Valley, Abiad said, according to Al Jazeera." This CCTV footage shows one of the devices exploding in a busy supermarket: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/dozens-hezbollah-members-wounded-lebanon-when-pagers-exploded-sources-witnesses-2024-09-17/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/dozens-hezbollah-m... Terrorizing your opponents is one thing, but indiscriminately detonating bombs in public spaces is just plain terrorism.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - wraptile 2y ago
    Optimist in me thinks that outside solution is still possible either through revolutionary tech or fundamental discovery like total disproof of religion.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      Sadly, not happening. A lot of Israelis, Palestinians, and Lebanese are irreligious. Yet, a lot of Israelis, Palestinians, and Lebanese know people who have been affected by the conflict first hand (either refugees, civilian casualties, or combatant casualties), which makes it difficult to negotiate. The 1990s-2000s was the last period where some sort of negotiation could succeed, because there was still a large 1st and 1.5 gen Mizrahi and Sephardic community that had some residual feeling for Muslim states, and vice versa. That's how Israel and Morocco, Azerbaijan, and Turkey pre-2012 were able to get their relationship back on track. At this point, the peace process is dead. Even the secular opposition to Likud and the Kahanists in Israel supports a harsh military response, casualties be damned. Similar story in West Bank, Gaza, and Lebanon. Any sort of peace process will have to be backed by internal repression for a generation by all participants.
  - enterprise_cog 2y ago
    [dead]
- yonisto 2y ago
  indiscriminately? They were all used by Hezbollah operatives by definition. It is the most targeted operation if there ever was one.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - jsheard 2y ago
    Indiscriminate in the sense that bombs have an area of effect beyond the person carrying them, so they couldn't possibly account for collateral damage when firing them all at once, and a conscious decision was made that any unlucky civilians are fair game. Indiscriminate in the same sense as dropping a bunker buster on a residential block because you believe there's a handful of terrorists inside, or nuking two cities to "encourage" a military surrender. If you believe this tactic was just, then I trust that if Mossad obliterated your child in the process of assassinating an enemy of Israel who happened to be nearby then you would be able to forgive and forget, since it was for the greater good and they tried their best. Even if they were targeting the wrong person, as it sometimes goes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair Incidentally when they later killed the actual target of that operation they did so by detonating a 100kg car bomb on a public road, also killing 4 civilians and injuring 16 others.
    - yonisto 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - sudopluto 2y ago
      "unlucky civilians are fair game" that's been an unfortunate fact of war since, well, war was invented. maybe you should more angry at the people who started the war and put people in harms way, instead of complaining that one of the most precise operations still had unintended civilian consequences. taking the moral high ground is easy when you are not the one making decisions, and while the lesser of two evils (in your car bomb example) doesn't make sense on a personal level, it does make sense on a macro level
- llm_nerd 2y ago
  The busy supermarket saw people standing directly beside the target perplexed and completely unharmed. This was extremely localized. If the child story is true (which is always in question), presumably they were tragically playing with the pager or the like at precisely that time. However the footage of the attack is overwhelmingly fighting-age males exclusively. As far as military operations go, that is remarkably targeted.
  - S33V 2y ago
    if someone next to you in a supermarket was wounded from an explosive like the video shows, do you think perplexed and completely unharmed would be a good description for your experience? Maybe we saw different videos, but it's pretty hard to make such a generalized statement from a few seconds of video.
    - llm_nerd 2y ago
      Yes? Clearly the people directly beside the target were physically unharmed and confused about what happened. For all they knew the guy had an e-vape explode or something. Maybe in the future they'll carry some emotional damage or something, but living in a country de facto in a state of war with a formidable nuclear-power neighbour, while governed by a terrorist organization that indiscriminately fires rockets into civilian areas essentially daily, carries that risk, right? I doubt such an operation was a surprise to anyone.
    - bbqfog 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - dotancohen 2y ago
        And how did watching videos of Hamas beheading people on October 7th affect you? And how did watching videos from the Hezbollah attack on the children's football field, that killed a dozen children, affect you?
        2y ago
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Also, being a martyr on a poster with everyone celebrating you can be an attractive recruitment tool to young men. But seeing the broken beggar without eyes that people pity isn't going to be quite the same enticement to recruit for your terrorism org.

jsheard 2y ago

Who said the injured are all Hezbollah members? From the above Guardian coverage: "Among those killed is an eight-year-old girl from Bekka Valley, Abiad said, according to Al Jazeera." This CCTV footage shows one of the devices exploding in a busy supermarket: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/dozens-hezbollah-members-wounded-lebanon-when-pagers-exploded-sources-witnesses-2024-09-17/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/dozens-hezbollah-m... Terrorizing your opponents is one thing, but indiscriminately detonating bombs in public spaces is just plain terrorism.

alephnerd 2y ago
[flagged]
- wraptile 2y ago
  Optimist in me thinks that outside solution is still possible either through revolutionary tech or fundamental discovery like total disproof of religion.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    Sadly, not happening. A lot of Israelis, Palestinians, and Lebanese are irreligious. Yet, a lot of Israelis, Palestinians, and Lebanese know people who have been affected by the conflict first hand (either refugees, civilian casualties, or combatant casualties), which makes it difficult to negotiate. The 1990s-2000s was the last period where some sort of negotiation could succeed, because there was still a large 1st and 1.5 gen Mizrahi and Sephardic community that had some residual feeling for Muslim states, and vice versa. That's how Israel and Morocco, Azerbaijan, and Turkey pre-2012 were able to get their relationship back on track. At this point, the peace process is dead. Even the secular opposition to Likud and the Kahanists in Israel supports a harsh military response, casualties be damned. Similar story in West Bank, Gaza, and Lebanon. Any sort of peace process will have to be backed by internal repression for a generation by all participants.
- enterprise_cog 2y ago
  [dead]
yonisto 2y ago
indiscriminately? They were all used by Hezbollah operatives by definition. It is the most targeted operation if there ever was one.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  [flagged]
- jsheard 2y ago
  Indiscriminate in the sense that bombs have an area of effect beyond the person carrying them, so they couldn't possibly account for collateral damage when firing them all at once, and a conscious decision was made that any unlucky civilians are fair game. Indiscriminate in the same sense as dropping a bunker buster on a residential block because you believe there's a handful of terrorists inside, or nuking two cities to "encourage" a military surrender. If you believe this tactic was just, then I trust that if Mossad obliterated your child in the process of assassinating an enemy of Israel who happened to be nearby then you would be able to forgive and forget, since it was for the greater good and they tried their best. Even if they were targeting the wrong person, as it sometimes goes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair Incidentally when they later killed the actual target of that operation they did so by detonating a 100kg car bomb on a public road, also killing 4 civilians and injuring 16 others.
  - yonisto 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - sudopluto 2y ago
    "unlucky civilians are fair game" that's been an unfortunate fact of war since, well, war was invented. maybe you should more angry at the people who started the war and put people in harms way, instead of complaining that one of the most precise operations still had unintended civilian consequences. taking the moral high ground is easy when you are not the one making decisions, and while the lesser of two evils (in your car bomb example) doesn't make sense on a personal level, it does make sense on a macro level
llm_nerd 2y ago
The busy supermarket saw people standing directly beside the target perplexed and completely unharmed. This was extremely localized. If the child story is true (which is always in question), presumably they were tragically playing with the pager or the like at precisely that time. However the footage of the attack is overwhelmingly fighting-age males exclusively. As far as military operations go, that is remarkably targeted.
- S33V 2y ago
  if someone next to you in a supermarket was wounded from an explosive like the video shows, do you think perplexed and completely unharmed would be a good description for your experience? Maybe we saw different videos, but it's pretty hard to make such a generalized statement from a few seconds of video.
  - llm_nerd 2y ago
    Yes? Clearly the people directly beside the target were physically unharmed and confused about what happened. For all they knew the guy had an e-vape explode or something. Maybe in the future they'll carry some emotional damage or something, but living in a country de facto in a state of war with a formidable nuclear-power neighbour, while governed by a terrorist organization that indiscriminately fires rockets into civilian areas essentially daily, carries that risk, right? I doubt such an operation was a surprise to anyone.
  - bbqfog 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - dotancohen 2y ago
      And how did watching videos of Hamas beheading people on October 7th affect you? And how did watching videos from the Hezbollah attack on the children's football field, that killed a dozen children, affect you?
      - 2y ago

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Also, being a martyr on a poster with everyone celebrating you can be an attractive recruitment tool to young men. But seeing the broken beggar without eyes that people pity isn't going to be quite the same enticement to recruit for your terrorism org.