5 ms·

someone in the US government is probably freaking out about all these iphones and macbooks made in china right now.

by kart23 2y ago

morwanger 2y ago
[flagged]
- underlipton 2y ago
  This is a little over-the-top, but I do agree that the clinical way some are handling this understates the horror of what's happening. These people were at home or running errands or at work, not pointing a gun at anyone at that particular moment.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    With fairness though, this is exactly the risk we run as an importer-state of electronics that cannot secure our own supply chains. We've been dealing with the digital risk of backdoored electronics for the better half of a decade; physical risks were only a matter of time. There exists meaningful mitigation (eg. inspect imported electronics at random) but ultimately this risk is our just-deserts as Americans. If our smartphone and car manufacturers didn't take their jobs to other countries, then we'd be able to sleep a whole lot easier. Turns out, there is a bipartisan interest in making America hostile to manufacturing jobs.
xeonmc 2y ago
Evocative of the "power user" scene from Iron Sky[0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWovt5-wfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWovt5-wfk
tptacek 2y ago
Probably not so much, no.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - tptacek 2y ago
    Because we would visit ruin on them in response (and they to us, likely, were we to pull the same trick). Israel is exploiting Hezbollah's inability to do that given its present circumstances.
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      Fair enough. Thanks.
walleeee 2y ago
Some in the US government do tend to project their own bloody-mindedness onto the Chinese, yes
hollerith 2y ago
Actually, I trust Apple's hardware security enough that I think it is probably impossible for anyone in China (even though they have physical access to the devices) to alter an iPhone or Macbook so that its own electronics can be used to trigger any explosive the attacker might install in the device, so in addition to an explosive, the attacker would need to install his own radio receiver. And the attacker probably won't be able to use the device's electronics to eavesdrop on the device's user, so no ability to tell whether the user is in the group the attacker wants to target unless again the attacker installs his own electronics (including radio transmitter) to do the eavesdropping.
- LincolnedList 2y ago
  An Iphone should weigh X grams. I think you should be able to detect tampering by weighing it. I don't whats the margin of error/variance that passes quality control.
- talldayo 2y ago
  > it is probably impossible for anyone in China (even though they have physical access to the devices) to alter an iPhone or Macbook so that its own electronics can be used to trigger any explosive the attacker might install in the device It would be trivial for a Mossad-level adversary to get around this. The pager explosives were disguised inside the battery, not around it. If you replaced the iPhone's 4500mAh battery with a 3500mAh one containing RDX and a 3G radio, you'd have to be mega-paranoid before you noticed the difference. This is exactly the sort of hubris modern intelligence agencies rely on in order to exploit your misplaced trust. Apple's hardware security, much like their software security, is mostly predicated on marketing and not the transparent or accountable defense of your device.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - acdha 2y ago
    > If you replaced the iPhone's 4500mAh battery with a 3500mAh one containing RDX and a 3G radio, you'd have to be mega-paranoid before you noticed the difference. There’s a 0% chance Apple wouldn’t detect that. A huge difference in battery life like that would fail QC and even the weight would have to be very close before it wouldn’t be flagged for inspection. The liability for battery fires means so dude at the factory isn’t just saying “probably fine” and using them anyway. > Apple's hardware security, much like their software security, is mostly predicated on marketing and not the transparent or accountable defense of your device. Have you personally audited it, or are we just being asked to accept this because it would support your tribal affinities?

someone in the US government is probably freaking out about all these iphones and macbooks made in china right now.

by kart23 2y ago

someone in the US government is probably freaking out about all these iphones and macbooks made in china right now.

morwanger 2y ago

[flagged]

underlipton 2y ago
This is a little over-the-top, but I do agree that the clinical way some are handling this understates the horror of what's happening. These people were at home or running errands or at work, not pointing a gun at anyone at that particular moment.
- talldayo 2y ago
  With fairness though, this is exactly the risk we run as an importer-state of electronics that cannot secure our own supply chains. We've been dealing with the digital risk of backdoored electronics for the better half of a decade; physical risks were only a matter of time. There exists meaningful mitigation (eg. inspect imported electronics at random) but ultimately this risk is our just-deserts as Americans. If our smartphone and car manufacturers didn't take their jobs to other countries, then we'd be able to sleep a whole lot easier. Turns out, there is a bipartisan interest in making America hostile to manufacturing jobs.

xeonmc 2y ago

Evocative of the "power user" scene from Iron Sky[0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWovt5-wfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWovt5-wfk

tptacek 2y ago

Probably not so much, no.

dredmorbius 2y ago
[flagged]
- tptacek 2y ago
  Because we would visit ruin on them in response (and they to us, likely, were we to pull the same trick). Israel is exploiting Hezbollah's inability to do that given its present circumstances.
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    Fair enough. Thanks.

walleeee 2y ago

Some in the US government do tend to project their own bloody-mindedness onto the Chinese, yes

hollerith 2y ago

Actually, I trust Apple's hardware security enough that I think it is probably impossible for anyone in China (even though they have physical access to the devices) to alter an iPhone or Macbook so that its own electronics can be used to trigger any explosive the attacker might install in the device, so in addition to an explosive, the attacker would need to install his own radio receiver. And the attacker probably won't be able to use the device's electronics to eavesdrop on the device's user, so no ability to tell whether the user is in the group the attacker wants to target unless again the attacker installs his own electronics (including radio transmitter) to do the eavesdropping.

LincolnedList 2y ago
An Iphone should weigh X grams. I think you should be able to detect tampering by weighing it. I don't whats the margin of error/variance that passes quality control.
talldayo 2y ago
> it is probably impossible for anyone in China (even though they have physical access to the devices) to alter an iPhone or Macbook so that its own electronics can be used to trigger any explosive the attacker might install in the device It would be trivial for a Mossad-level adversary to get around this. The pager explosives were disguised inside the battery, not around it. If you replaced the iPhone's 4500mAh battery with a 3500mAh one containing RDX and a 3G radio, you'd have to be mega-paranoid before you noticed the difference. This is exactly the sort of hubris modern intelligence agencies rely on in order to exploit your misplaced trust. Apple's hardware security, much like their software security, is mostly predicated on marketing and not the transparent or accountable defense of your device.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- acdha 2y ago
  > If you replaced the iPhone's 4500mAh battery with a 3500mAh one containing RDX and a 3G radio, you'd have to be mega-paranoid before you noticed the difference. There’s a 0% chance Apple wouldn’t detect that. A huge difference in battery life like that would fail QC and even the weight would have to be very close before it wouldn’t be flagged for inspection. The liability for battery fires means so dude at the factory isn’t just saying “probably fine” and using them anyway. > Apple's hardware security, much like their software security, is mostly predicated on marketing and not the transparent or accountable defense of your device. Have you personally audited it, or are we just being asked to accept this because it would support your tribal affinities?