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Every developer must go through that phase. You can't do anything useful "for people" if you don't know how to use your tools correctly. Trying to make jr engi

by herval 2y ago

Every developer must go through that phase. You can't do anything useful "for people" if you don't know how to use your tools correctly. Trying to make jr engineers realize this right away (or treat code as an afterthought) is bound to create terminally junior engineers, or worse - senior engineers that simply can't code.

namaria 2y ago
Considering the human side and impact of the systems we design and build doesn't preclude knowing the technical stuff. Claiming it will cripple engineers is quite far fetched.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 2y ago
  > Claiming it will cripple engineers is quite far fetched. But the emphasis leads to the MBAs (like McKinsey people) getting into leadership. Then the people who rise are not the people who are great engineers, but people who can play the people games. Look at the effect of the McDonnell Douglas merger on Boeing when the “people” people pushed out the engineering people.
  - soco 2y ago
    Well yes but actually no. Those MBAs are not your users, so their rise has nothing to do with the software development at its core. Because you're not developing software for your boss(es), remember? You are developing it for some poor humans called users - which may or (more often) may not have a say in this of course.
    - herval 2y ago
      > cause you're not developing software for your boss(es), remember? You are developing it for some poor humans called users You're developing for both. It's not a XOR situation.
DougN7 2y ago
I have to disagree. For some reason our industry seems to attract a lot of people that are enamored with the tech for tech’s sake. I was one of those. It has a huge epiphany to me at 26 to realize the tech didn’t matter - it was the people (users/customers) and what use they could get out of it. But that realization didn’t change my core - I still loved tech and did deep dives. But now my reason had changed a bit - and what I produced was more usable. I think it’s a very healthy thing to help jr engineers see this.
- herval 2y ago
  What I mean is that epiphany you went through is extremely common, and everyone goes through more or less at the same 5-10 years of experience. The difference is the people who didn’t spend that time focusing on technique before becoming seniors tend to be terrible engineers, invariably

by herval 2y ago

namaria 2y ago

Considering the human side and impact of the systems we design and build doesn't preclude knowing the technical stuff. Claiming it will cripple engineers is quite far fetched.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 2y ago
> Claiming it will cripple engineers is quite far fetched. But the emphasis leads to the MBAs (like McKinsey people) getting into leadership. Then the people who rise are not the people who are great engineers, but people who can play the people games. Look at the effect of the McDonnell Douglas merger on Boeing when the “people” people pushed out the engineering people.
- soco 2y ago
  Well yes but actually no. Those MBAs are not your users, so their rise has nothing to do with the software development at its core. Because you're not developing software for your boss(es), remember? You are developing it for some poor humans called users - which may or (more often) may not have a say in this of course.
  - herval 2y ago
    > cause you're not developing software for your boss(es), remember? You are developing it for some poor humans called users You're developing for both. It's not a XOR situation.

DougN7 2y ago

I have to disagree. For some reason our industry seems to attract a lot of people that are enamored with the tech for tech’s sake. I was one of those. It has a huge epiphany to me at 26 to realize the tech didn’t matter - it was the people (users/customers) and what use they could get out of it. But that realization didn’t change my core - I still loved tech and did deep dives. But now my reason had changed a bit - and what I produced was more usable. I think it’s a very healthy thing to help jr engineers see this.

herval 2y ago
What I mean is that epiphany you went through is extremely common, and everyone goes through more or less at the same 5-10 years of experience. The difference is the people who didn’t spend that time focusing on technique before becoming seniors tend to be terrible engineers, invariably