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If I have to choose between "the owning class colludes" and "the owning class is acting irrationally, and just coincidentally happen to act in accordance with t

If I have to choose between "the owning class colludes" and "the owning class is acting irrationally, and just coincidentally happen to act in accordance with the interests of other members of the owning class", Occam's razor points me toward the first.

contrast 2y ago
The first is a complex solution that would require many elements to work. The second requires nothing at all; it couldn't be simpler. Why would Occam's Razor point you to the first?
- wesselbindt 2y ago
  The simplicity of "it's all just a coincidence" is about the same as "it's all just magic". And you would be right about the collusion explanation's need for some elements to work, were it not for the fact that we see those elements working together in broad daylight. They attend the same universities, join the same clubs, they even have a town in Switzerland that's become synonymous with the owning class meeting up (Davos).
  - woooooo 2y ago
    They're not saying it's coincidence, they're saying it's herd behavior and groupthink.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
      The people we're talking to don't really understand those concepts. Or possibly they just reject them implicitly (which would be an even stranger explanation).
      - wesselbindt 2y ago
        Yeah and I hear they're stinky, too.
        NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
        I wasn't going to say anything, but there is a bit of overlap between them and the "deodorant is late-stage capitalist oppression" crowd.
Lutger 2y ago
Not coincidentally, it is because of their bias, not some hidden conspiracy. Occams razor requires you to drop assumptions that aren't required to explain a thing. A conspiracy involves a lot of extra stuff, furthermore it is often hard to find evidence for - usually because they just don't exist. There are so many problems with them, it should really be a matter of last resort. Conspiracies do exist of course, but I feel you should only use time to explain the world if you have sound evidence, and still be open to falsification.
NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
Yes, evil rich people hiding in the woodpile, snickering while silently watching through their Monopoly Guy monocles... that's the only sane explanation. The "owning class" consists of a bunch of companies managed by a revolving door of middle management and an even faster revolving door of upper management. And they don't own a damned thing.

contrast 2y ago

The first is a complex solution that would require many elements to work. The second requires nothing at all; it couldn't be simpler. Why would Occam's Razor point you to the first?

wesselbindt 2y ago
The simplicity of "it's all just a coincidence" is about the same as "it's all just magic". And you would be right about the collusion explanation's need for some elements to work, were it not for the fact that we see those elements working together in broad daylight. They attend the same universities, join the same clubs, they even have a town in Switzerland that's become synonymous with the owning class meeting up (Davos).
- woooooo 2y ago
  They're not saying it's coincidence, they're saying it's herd behavior and groupthink.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
    The people we're talking to don't really understand those concepts. Or possibly they just reject them implicitly (which would be an even stranger explanation).
    - wesselbindt 2y ago
      Yeah and I hear they're stinky, too.
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
        I wasn't going to say anything, but there is a bit of overlap between them and the "deodorant is late-stage capitalist oppression" crowd.

Lutger 2y ago

Not coincidentally, it is because of their bias, not some hidden conspiracy. Occams razor requires you to drop assumptions that aren't required to explain a thing. A conspiracy involves a lot of extra stuff, furthermore it is often hard to find evidence for - usually because they just don't exist. There are so many problems with them, it should really be a matter of last resort. Conspiracies do exist of course, but I feel you should only use time to explain the world if you have sound evidence, and still be open to falsification.

NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago

Yes, evil rich people hiding in the woodpile, snickering while silently watching through their Monopoly Guy monocles... that's the only sane explanation. The "owning class" consists of a bunch of companies managed by a revolving door of middle management and an even faster revolving door of upper management. And they don't own a damned thing.