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Should be unconstitutional. In fact I could have sworn there was this amendment specifically about seizures, and failing that, one about due process. If no crim

Should be unconstitutional. In fact I could have sworn there was this amendment specifically about seizures, and failing that, one about due process. If no crime has been committed and/or no charges have been filed or are going to be filed in a timely manner, then I fail to see on what basis the government gets to deprive someone of property.

jandrewrogers 2y ago
Several members of the US Supreme Court have already expressed strong skepticism about the Constitutionality of this practice but other parts of the government are very good at ensuring no case ever arrives there for it to be adjudicated. There is a parallel situation with the No Fly List, which is clearly unconstitutional in many cases but the Federal government is adroit at making sure no case with standing makes it to the USSC to be adjudicated, lest they lose this particular weapon.
- rkagerer 2y ago
  How have they deflected cases? And how is this ongoing? Have they just not yet encountered someone with the means (and strong enough case) to fight it tooth and nail up the courts?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > how is this ongoing? The language is from Culley, which was decided last year [1]. I haven't seen any evidence that anyone is deflecting cases. Just that our judicial system is slow. [1] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-585_k5fm.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-585_k5fm.pdf
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
    when someone has a strong enough case and means, you take the loss at the trial level (or before by dropping the case). That way the case never makes it to the district or supreme courts that can actually create precedent.
  - Jach 2y ago
    Besides deflecting cases, the Federal Circuit sometimes works to effectively overturn the Supreme Court. A real mask-off moment from an patent attorney years ago: https://ipwatchdog.com/2012/03/20/supreme-court-mayo-v-prometheus/id=22920/ https://ipwatchdog.com/2012/03/20/supreme-court-mayo-v-prome... How long will it take the Federal Circuit to overrule this inexplicable nonsense? The novice reader may find that question to be ignorant, since the Supreme Court is the highest court of the United States. Those well acquainted with the industry know that the Supreme Court is not the final word on patentability, and while the claims at issue in this particular case are unfortunately lost, the Federal Circuit will work to moderate (and eventually overturn) this embarrassing display by the Supreme Court. This will eventually be accomplished the same as it was after the Supreme Court definitively ruled software is not patentable in Gottschalk v. Benson, and the same as the ruling in KSR v. Teleflex will be overruled. I have taken issue with Chief Judge Rader’s statements that nothing has changed in Federal Circuit jurisprudence as a result of KSR, which is not technically true. What is true, however, is that the Federal Circuit continues to refine the KSR “common sense test,” narrowing the applicability in case after case and tightening the ability for “common sense” to be used against an application. We are almost 5 years post KSR and there is still a lot of work left to be done by the Federal Circuit to finally overrule the Supreme Court’s KSR decision. It took almost 10 years to overrule Gottschalk v. Benson, so we are likely in for a decade of work to moderate the nonsense thrust upon the industry this morning.
- rangestransform 2y ago
  Isn’t this also the case with the Zimmerman PGP case never making its way to a court ruling?
waveBidder 2y ago
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

jandrewrogers 2y ago

Several members of the US Supreme Court have already expressed strong skepticism about the Constitutionality of this practice but other parts of the government are very good at ensuring no case ever arrives there for it to be adjudicated. There is a parallel situation with the No Fly List, which is clearly unconstitutional in many cases but the Federal government is adroit at making sure no case with standing makes it to the USSC to be adjudicated, lest they lose this particular weapon.

rkagerer 2y ago
How have they deflected cases? And how is this ongoing? Have they just not yet encountered someone with the means (and strong enough case) to fight it tooth and nail up the courts?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > how is this ongoing? The language is from Culley, which was decided last year [1]. I haven't seen any evidence that anyone is deflecting cases. Just that our judicial system is slow. [1] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-585_k5fm.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-585_k5fm.pdf
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
  when someone has a strong enough case and means, you take the loss at the trial level (or before by dropping the case). That way the case never makes it to the district or supreme courts that can actually create precedent.
- Jach 2y ago
  Besides deflecting cases, the Federal Circuit sometimes works to effectively overturn the Supreme Court. A real mask-off moment from an patent attorney years ago: https://ipwatchdog.com/2012/03/20/supreme-court-mayo-v-prometheus/id=22920/ https://ipwatchdog.com/2012/03/20/supreme-court-mayo-v-prome... How long will it take the Federal Circuit to overrule this inexplicable nonsense? The novice reader may find that question to be ignorant, since the Supreme Court is the highest court of the United States. Those well acquainted with the industry know that the Supreme Court is not the final word on patentability, and while the claims at issue in this particular case are unfortunately lost, the Federal Circuit will work to moderate (and eventually overturn) this embarrassing display by the Supreme Court. This will eventually be accomplished the same as it was after the Supreme Court definitively ruled software is not patentable in Gottschalk v. Benson, and the same as the ruling in KSR v. Teleflex will be overruled. I have taken issue with Chief Judge Rader’s statements that nothing has changed in Federal Circuit jurisprudence as a result of KSR, which is not technically true. What is true, however, is that the Federal Circuit continues to refine the KSR “common sense test,” narrowing the applicability in case after case and tightening the ability for “common sense” to be used against an application. We are almost 5 years post KSR and there is still a lot of work left to be done by the Federal Circuit to finally overrule the Supreme Court’s KSR decision. It took almost 10 years to overrule Gottschalk v. Benson, so we are likely in for a decade of work to moderate the nonsense thrust upon the industry this morning.
rangestransform 2y ago
Isn’t this also the case with the Zimmerman PGP case never making its way to a court ruling?

waveBidder 2y ago

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.