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In Iran, AI powered facial recognition cameras are being rolled out to catch out any women who dare disobey their religious clothing rules. Once caught, these w

In Iran, AI powered facial recognition cameras are being rolled out to catch out any women who dare disobey their religious clothing rules. Once caught, these women often face severe abuses at the hands of the state. The state in this case believes this is "good behaviour", but this would be shocking to most HN readers. This is a good example of why you should never give one person or organisation too much power. Who gets to define what "Good behaviour" is?

jaapbadlands 2y ago
I agree about one person or organisation too much power, and fear the potential for abuse, but the problem in the Iran example are the theocratic laws, not really the tools that help enforce them. Good behaviour is already defined by each nation's legislation.
- sterlind 2y ago
  some tools make it too easy to enforce bad laws at scale. it's a lot of work for the morality police to catch up to every woman who removes her hijab and cart her to jail. unless you're watching all the women all the time, they'll often get away with it. mass surveillance really takes a lot of the legwork out of running a repressive regime.
  - snapplebobapple 2y ago
    This has a broader purpoae in democracy. Laws change as people realize they are stupid and disobey them then opinion changes and the law catches up. The chance of being caughy and/or the punishment cant be too high to short circuit this for all but the most obviously bad crimes (ie murder, large scale theft, rape)
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  It is pretty much both. And these tools are ineffective for security anyway.
decremental 2y ago
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8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
To be intentionally provocative, who are we as a morally bankrupt capitalist-imperialistic-colonialist-white-supremacist-nation-built-on-slavery to tell the noble and pious people-of-color of the Middle East what they can and cannot do with their culture?
- ClassyJacket 2y ago
  People. We're people, and as such we get to make moral judgements. And it's obviously and pretty straightforwardly not okay to force women to cover themselves head to toe. This particular example is not even difficult to deduct from some pretty basic axioms of morality, mainly that disadvantaging someone on the basis of their sex is wrong and that people should have personal freedom so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.
  - DrPimienta 2y ago
    >We're people, and as such we get to make moral judgements. And it's obviously and pretty straightforwardly not okay to force women to cover themselves head to toe. A lot of those women who cover themselves from head to toe believe it's the right thing to do, and also believe that forcing other women to do the same is the right thing to do. That's his point. What you believe is right and wrong is not the central basis for morality.
- stranded22 2y ago
  When I read about the women who, just a few years ago were able to chat and laugh in public, wear whatever they want, go to school, college, work and are now beaten/jailed/stoned/murdered for these things? I think this ‘provocative’ comment has forgotten the human element in this.
  - DrPimienta 2y ago
    I believe that is his point. You (and most of us here) might think that this behavior is bad... But those people believe it is right. Who makes the decisions about what is right and what is wrong? There are Muslim women right now that march in Britain in the name of Sharia. Surely they should want more freedom and rights, and yet there they are, dressed in all black garb marching for their "oppressors" They do so because they believe it is right.

jaapbadlands 2y ago

I agree about one person or organisation too much power, and fear the potential for abuse, but the problem in the Iran example are the theocratic laws, not really the tools that help enforce them. Good behaviour is already defined by each nation's legislation.

sterlind 2y ago
some tools make it too easy to enforce bad laws at scale. it's a lot of work for the morality police to catch up to every woman who removes her hijab and cart her to jail. unless you're watching all the women all the time, they'll often get away with it. mass surveillance really takes a lot of the legwork out of running a repressive regime.
- snapplebobapple 2y ago
  This has a broader purpoae in democracy. Laws change as people realize they are stupid and disobey them then opinion changes and the law catches up. The chance of being caughy and/or the punishment cant be too high to short circuit this for all but the most obviously bad crimes (ie murder, large scale theft, rape)
raxxorraxor 2y ago
It is pretty much both. And these tools are ineffective for security anyway.

decremental 2y ago

[dead]

8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago

To be intentionally provocative, who are we as a morally bankrupt capitalist-imperialistic-colonialist-white-supremacist-nation-built-on-slavery to tell the noble and pious people-of-color of the Middle East what they can and cannot do with their culture?

ClassyJacket 2y ago
People. We're people, and as such we get to make moral judgements. And it's obviously and pretty straightforwardly not okay to force women to cover themselves head to toe. This particular example is not even difficult to deduct from some pretty basic axioms of morality, mainly that disadvantaging someone on the basis of their sex is wrong and that people should have personal freedom so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.
- DrPimienta 2y ago
  >We're people, and as such we get to make moral judgements. And it's obviously and pretty straightforwardly not okay to force women to cover themselves head to toe. A lot of those women who cover themselves from head to toe believe it's the right thing to do, and also believe that forcing other women to do the same is the right thing to do. That's his point. What you believe is right and wrong is not the central basis for morality.
stranded22 2y ago
When I read about the women who, just a few years ago were able to chat and laugh in public, wear whatever they want, go to school, college, work and are now beaten/jailed/stoned/murdered for these things? I think this ‘provocative’ comment has forgotten the human element in this.
- DrPimienta 2y ago
  I believe that is his point. You (and most of us here) might think that this behavior is bad... But those people believe it is right. Who makes the decisions about what is right and what is wrong? There are Muslim women right now that march in Britain in the name of Sharia. Surely they should want more freedom and rights, and yet there they are, dressed in all black garb marching for their "oppressors" They do so because they believe it is right.