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The USA, overall, does not encourage the development of high-tech engineering, improved infrastructure, cultural growth, appreciation for academic rigor, etc. B

The USA, overall, does not encourage the development of high-tech engineering, improved infrastructure, cultural growth, appreciation for academic rigor, etc. By a mixture of miracles we became the world's superpower, but many of our fortuitous circumstances were accidental (mass migration of talented Europeans/Asians in the wake of famines/persecutions, WWII decimating manufacturing in Europe and Asia, abundant natural resources and perfect geography). However to improve as a country we have to abandon the puerile notion that the US is special for some metaphysical, divine reason. We got lucky and became a perfect environment for the development of the world's leading industries, but that providence is being quickly ceded to China. In terms of overall lifestyle quality we are far behind much of Europe anyways. The only thing America has that are the best in the world are its research universities (due to money and being able to take advantage of brain drain from around the world), its tech industry and high cultural soft power, areas it once held an overwhelming lead in that are evaporating fast.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Thank you I needed a laugh today.
- atleastoptimal 2y ago
  Search your feelings, you know it to be true. Every empire has had its day in the sun and its inevitable fall. What makes the fall inevitable? It's that during the seeding years of the fall, the notion that the ascendant, ever-present power surrounding everything could one day falter seems laughable to most.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    I hate to break it to you but this: The USA, overall, does not encourage the development of high-tech engineering, improved infrastructure, cultural growth, appreciation for academic rigor is not true in the slightest. In my lifetime the USA brought to critical mass most technology that makes the modern world modern. Infrastructure issues are a lack of holding local government accountable. My area our infrastructure is mostly new with several large bridges recently replaced without incident, most highways recently expanded, train infrastructure greatly improved and capacity expanded (and soooo much quieter it's awesome). Sewer expanded AND releasing less into the river. Oh and water policy changes (made possible by infrastructure improvements) allowing the re-establishment of Salmon in our rivers, improved sturgeon population. The average American males attitude towards women in my lifetime has taken a huge cultural shift for the better. Huge changes have been made to reduce domestic violence (and peoples indifference to it) in my lifetime. Huge strides against inequality and racism have occured in my lifetime. Huge strides in LGBT+ rights. These are just off the top of my head cultural growths that have occured in my lifetime. The education of the average American is soo much better than it was of my parents generation, or the one before them. People are much more empathetic, inquisitive, understand more tech, are more well read. I agree we don't place unreasonable academic expectations on our children, but don't mistake that for a lack of intellectual inquisitiveness. In fact, I would say our attitude sparks it more, and to a deeper, more passionate level. I can't recall running into young people who can't sign their name, while that was not uncommon in my grandparents generation and I know multiple people like that in my parents. The USA is doing so much better than we were in the 1970s. The USAs willingness to vocalize our doom and gloom feelings is just one of our strengths, not a sign of our impending collapse. I love China. My dad was a hippie, we had so many books on China and communism (I even grew up on a commune in the 70s). I have visited China and loved it. I have friends there, and many friends in the USA who were born in China (and got stuck in the USA when they were students during tiananmen). I wish China the best. It doesn't have to be an us versus them, this isn't Civ. Lying about the USA doesn't accomplish anything. Those trying to doom and gloom the USA into Russian style indifference are mistaking the 'tragically online' attitude of despair for a general American one.
    - atleastoptimal 2y ago
      I agree with you that the US is markedly better than it was in the 1970s. The problem is is that we are improving at a pace below par for our wealth. Our progress compared to China over the past 50 years is basically a snail's pace, when they've gone to near universal poverty to on par with us technologically in that amount of time. America could have built high-speed rail, a robust universal healthcare system, better public education, more walkable cities beyond Manhattan and more in that time. >I wish China the best. It doesn't have to be an us versus them I wish it were that simple, but China sees itself as a strict competitor to the USA in a geopolitical sense. Once they believe they can take the thrown without catastrophic casualties, they will make the shot, even if it means a period of suffering and contraction, which they certainly have accepted in the past to further their aims. If China were some backwards North-Korea type country then we could rest easy, but their rapid growth despite having a very controlling government has presented an alternative thesis to the "ideal system" that the US has touted as having since the end of WWII. All of our progress in these areas of social justice, equality, etc. will mean nothing once we are in China's sphere of influence.
      - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        I disagree. What we have seen is the absolute best possible case for China's command economy and I don't think that model will handle the current downturn, combined with Xi changing from a wild west environment to tight controls, combined with local government cutoff from their main source of funding which is new land leases. Have you seen the latest where China is requiring startup founders to personally guarantee profitability? China's highspeed rail isn't paying down it's debts yet alone setting aside funding for future large maintenance expenses. (I hope this doesn't sound confrontational) Did we setup a universal healthcare system and fail? Did we intentionally start projects to build walkable cities and fail? I think Universal healthcare is a given at this point, we are reaching critical mass, but we need to actually do stuff to keep working to get there (including educating others in a way they can hear), not just complain or say we tried nothing and are all out of ideas. But not enacting specific things you or I want is very different from failing. I haven't seen the USA fail at those things, just not move in those directions. So lets put in the work, not spin out on the internet. I get so motivated in my local community. We lost our major employers but we've improved our downtown, added so much flowers/art/beauty, added walking/hiking/mountain biking/snow shoeing/cross country skiing trails. We have community gardens where you can go and grow your own food. Every year the people here make the town better instead of letting it go back which it easily could have. Again I really like China and its people. I am so happy so many have been lifted out of poverty, I am ecstatic at their success even, it is something to celebrate. I look forward to us reaching a balance, just like 80s freaked out America reached a balance with juggernaut Japan that was going to own the entire USA.
csomar 2y ago
Bingo. You hit the nail in the head. Most people who have never been to the US will be surprised when they land as it lacks many features of the developed world (as in comparing to Europe and Japan). What the US has right now is particular access to capital that enables it to attract talent from across the globe. It also has a relatively open system, so you can trade. This made it possible for highly innovative and powerful companies to exist. If you remove these companies and this capital; something that could happen rather quickly (most of them are in Software), a US citizen will probably have the same purchasing power as someone from Brazil.
- atleastoptimal 2y ago
  I wouldn't go as far as to assume US would suddenly become a middle income country. The US still has a strong industrial backbone, robust education system, high immigration across income levels, reasonably developed infrastructure, natural resources far beyond any other country.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Thank you I needed a laugh today.

atleastoptimal 2y ago
Search your feelings, you know it to be true. Every empire has had its day in the sun and its inevitable fall. What makes the fall inevitable? It's that during the seeding years of the fall, the notion that the ascendant, ever-present power surrounding everything could one day falter seems laughable to most.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  I hate to break it to you but this: The USA, overall, does not encourage the development of high-tech engineering, improved infrastructure, cultural growth, appreciation for academic rigor is not true in the slightest. In my lifetime the USA brought to critical mass most technology that makes the modern world modern. Infrastructure issues are a lack of holding local government accountable. My area our infrastructure is mostly new with several large bridges recently replaced without incident, most highways recently expanded, train infrastructure greatly improved and capacity expanded (and soooo much quieter it's awesome). Sewer expanded AND releasing less into the river. Oh and water policy changes (made possible by infrastructure improvements) allowing the re-establishment of Salmon in our rivers, improved sturgeon population. The average American males attitude towards women in my lifetime has taken a huge cultural shift for the better. Huge changes have been made to reduce domestic violence (and peoples indifference to it) in my lifetime. Huge strides against inequality and racism have occured in my lifetime. Huge strides in LGBT+ rights. These are just off the top of my head cultural growths that have occured in my lifetime. The education of the average American is soo much better than it was of my parents generation, or the one before them. People are much more empathetic, inquisitive, understand more tech, are more well read. I agree we don't place unreasonable academic expectations on our children, but don't mistake that for a lack of intellectual inquisitiveness. In fact, I would say our attitude sparks it more, and to a deeper, more passionate level. I can't recall running into young people who can't sign their name, while that was not uncommon in my grandparents generation and I know multiple people like that in my parents. The USA is doing so much better than we were in the 1970s. The USAs willingness to vocalize our doom and gloom feelings is just one of our strengths, not a sign of our impending collapse. I love China. My dad was a hippie, we had so many books on China and communism (I even grew up on a commune in the 70s). I have visited China and loved it. I have friends there, and many friends in the USA who were born in China (and got stuck in the USA when they were students during tiananmen). I wish China the best. It doesn't have to be an us versus them, this isn't Civ. Lying about the USA doesn't accomplish anything. Those trying to doom and gloom the USA into Russian style indifference are mistaking the 'tragically online' attitude of despair for a general American one.
  - atleastoptimal 2y ago
    I agree with you that the US is markedly better than it was in the 1970s. The problem is is that we are improving at a pace below par for our wealth. Our progress compared to China over the past 50 years is basically a snail's pace, when they've gone to near universal poverty to on par with us technologically in that amount of time. America could have built high-speed rail, a robust universal healthcare system, better public education, more walkable cities beyond Manhattan and more in that time. >I wish China the best. It doesn't have to be an us versus them I wish it were that simple, but China sees itself as a strict competitor to the USA in a geopolitical sense. Once they believe they can take the thrown without catastrophic casualties, they will make the shot, even if it means a period of suffering and contraction, which they certainly have accepted in the past to further their aims. If China were some backwards North-Korea type country then we could rest easy, but their rapid growth despite having a very controlling government has presented an alternative thesis to the "ideal system" that the US has touted as having since the end of WWII. All of our progress in these areas of social justice, equality, etc. will mean nothing once we are in China's sphere of influence.
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      I disagree. What we have seen is the absolute best possible case for China's command economy and I don't think that model will handle the current downturn, combined with Xi changing from a wild west environment to tight controls, combined with local government cutoff from their main source of funding which is new land leases. Have you seen the latest where China is requiring startup founders to personally guarantee profitability? China's highspeed rail isn't paying down it's debts yet alone setting aside funding for future large maintenance expenses. (I hope this doesn't sound confrontational) Did we setup a universal healthcare system and fail? Did we intentionally start projects to build walkable cities and fail? I think Universal healthcare is a given at this point, we are reaching critical mass, but we need to actually do stuff to keep working to get there (including educating others in a way they can hear), not just complain or say we tried nothing and are all out of ideas. But not enacting specific things you or I want is very different from failing. I haven't seen the USA fail at those things, just not move in those directions. So lets put in the work, not spin out on the internet. I get so motivated in my local community. We lost our major employers but we've improved our downtown, added so much flowers/art/beauty, added walking/hiking/mountain biking/snow shoeing/cross country skiing trails. We have community gardens where you can go and grow your own food. Every year the people here make the town better instead of letting it go back which it easily could have. Again I really like China and its people. I am so happy so many have been lifted out of poverty, I am ecstatic at their success even, it is something to celebrate. I look forward to us reaching a balance, just like 80s freaked out America reached a balance with juggernaut Japan that was going to own the entire USA.

csomar 2y ago

Bingo. You hit the nail in the head. Most people who have never been to the US will be surprised when they land as it lacks many features of the developed world (as in comparing to Europe and Japan). What the US has right now is particular access to capital that enables it to attract talent from across the globe. It also has a relatively open system, so you can trade. This made it possible for highly innovative and powerful companies to exist. If you remove these companies and this capital; something that could happen rather quickly (most of them are in Software), a US citizen will probably have the same purchasing power as someone from Brazil.

atleastoptimal 2y ago
I wouldn't go as far as to assume US would suddenly become a middle income country. The US still has a strong industrial backbone, robust education system, high immigration across income levels, reasonably developed infrastructure, natural resources far beyond any other country.