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Omnipresent AI cameras will ensure good behavior, says Larry Ellison
- SoftTalker 2y ago[flagged]
- BenFranklin100 2y agoReported for ageism.
- al2o3cr 2y agoVery curious how Larry thinks AI cameras would have prevented this: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/12/technology/oracles-chief-in-agreement-to-settle-insider-trading-lawsuit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/12/technology/oracles-chief-... Or is he only worried about the behavior of people who aren't billionaires?
- hello_computer 2y agoI suspect that Larry is a closet libertarian, and this is his accelerationist response.
- cocacola1 2y agoOr could just be wishcasting a police state, which seems more likely.
- hprotagonist 2y agothere's not much of a difference. Just which end of the truncheon you think you're likely to be on.
- smegger001 2y agoi suspect his sudden love of big brother is that he plans to own the hardware its cloud runs on.
- hello_computer 2y agothat’s what i said. libertarian. thiel is in the same biz. the cattle have clearly and consistently expressed a preference for security over liberty, so might as well make a buck off it! not endorsing btw, just saying.
- smegger001 2y agolibertarian ideology seems rather counter to the existence of a police state. though many in favor of a corporatocracy seem to claim be libertarian as they look no deeper than low taxes and minimal regulation while ignoring the personal liberties for masses as that part isn't profitable for them.
- hello_computer 2y agosince a lot of people here have adhd-tldr, i repeat: not an endorsement, but if you see “the writing on the wall” (i.e. the plebes flushing inalienable rights down the toilet for cash and prizes), and that we’re headed for a feudalism revival, it would take a martyr-like devotion to libertarian principles to abstain from the surveillance-state gold rush.
- soulofmischief 2y agoI would ask that you reconsider using "adhd" as a derogatory manner in your future posts, it is quite ostracizing for people with actual ADHD to encounter such language. ADHD does not mean "can't pay attention to something longer than a few words". Please at least educate yourself on the disorder before using it as an insult. Additionally, you are using "libertarian" in an incorrect manner. A libertarian is someone who believes in minimal state intervention in personal affairs, which is at odds with a desire for total state surveillance.
- bxguff 2y agoNo wonder kids cover their faces now
- floydnoel 2y agostar wars fashion incoming!
- deadlydose 2y agoThey'll probably switch to gait detection and identification. So 'sand walk' incoming.
- CamperBob2 2y agoHey, can't be too careful -- COVID is still out there, right? Mask up, everybody!
- kylecazar 2y agoIt's a logical next step to what major cities are already doing for years now. I agree it will happen, not that it should be welcome. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Awareness_System https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Awareness_System
- mpalmer 2y agoSounds pretty god-awful to me. But it's certainly worth considering that this capability will exist in the next 20-30 years, for better or worse. Technology this powerful is the bedrock of a successful hypothetical totalitarian state, a big prerequisite. What do we do once it's within reach?
- artificialLimbs 2y agoProtect the first and second amendments.
- candiddevmike 2y agoYou could argue the second amendment has gotten us here.
- artificialLimbs 2y agoI couldn't. Go right ahead.
- singleshot_ 2y agoSure. Under the second amendment to the us constitution of 1787, and through the intentionally inflammatory language of the Declaration of Independence, many believe that citizens are empowered to “throw off the yoke” of an oppressive government. But the knowledge that — in an emergency — we could break open the glass of the second amendment and regain our rights blinds us to the by-degrees ratcheting towards authoritarianism. Without the false promise of the ability to overthrow a profoundly evil government, we would be more aggressive against the immediate threats, knowing that once we got too far, there was no ultra violence route back. (This is not a great argument, merely the best I could make on no notice).
- dyauspitr 2y agoCities like London and a lot of larger Chinese cities already have the majority of the city under continuous surveillance. It’s only a matter of feeding that data into an LLM. It’s already within reach.
- chris_wot 2y agoI'm sure this view will last for as long as it doesn't affect Larry Ellison.
- jameskilton 2y agoJustice without mercy is cruelty. Mercy without justice is the mother of dissolution. - St. Thomas Acquinas
- mjklin 2y agoWas he free? Was he happy? The question is absurd: Had anything been wrong, we should certainly have heard. - W.H. Auden
- aussieguy1234 2y agoIn Iran, AI powered facial recognition cameras are being rolled out to catch out any women who dare disobey their religious clothing rules. Once caught, these women often face severe abuses at the hands of the state. The state in this case believes this is "good behaviour", but this would be shocking to most HN readers. This is a good example of why you should never give one person or organisation too much power. Who gets to define what "Good behaviour" is?
- jaapbadlands 2y agoI agree about one person or organisation too much power, and fear the potential for abuse, but the problem in the Iran example are the theocratic laws, not really the tools that help enforce them. Good behaviour is already defined by each nation's legislation.
- sterlind 2y agosome tools make it too easy to enforce bad laws at scale. it's a lot of work for the morality police to catch up to every woman who removes her hijab and cart her to jail. unless you're watching all the women all the time, they'll often get away with it. mass surveillance really takes a lot of the legwork out of running a repressive regime.
- snapplebobapple 2y agoThis has a broader purpoae in democracy. Laws change as people realize they are stupid and disobey them then opinion changes and the law catches up. The chance of being caughy and/or the punishment cant be too high to short circuit this for all but the most obviously bad crimes (ie murder, large scale theft, rape)
- raxxorraxor 2y agoIt is pretty much both. And these tools are ineffective for security anyway.
- decremental 2y ago
- jmward01 2y agoThere is no doubt that this dystopian view deserves immediate condemnation, but that doesn't meant that there wasn't one possible good idea in there. Don't watch people, just watch the watchmen: "Every police officer is going to be supervised at all times, and if there's a problem, AI will report the problem and report it to the appropriate person."
- kstrauser 2y agoThat will never happen. There’ve been any number of transparency rules that somehow never make it into production. Look how hard it is today to get a copy of encounter recordings from many agencies.
- spacebacon 2y agoIt’s already happening. Ai is being used today to review police cam footage. Not in real time but that’s also not a huge barrier.
- Vivtek 2y agoWhy don't we start with some in his house and office?
- Vegenoid 2y ago> "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on," Ellison said He's not even trying to frame it as "the weight of crime will be lifted from the people so they can prosper". It's "citizens will be on their best behavior". I've got a suspicion that he envisions a separate world for himself that does not involve such monitoring.
- rsoto2 2y agoMid-covid lockdown when the virus was still fresh Larry emailed the entire company letting us know he was moving permanently to his private hawaiian island in order to "make it a better place" with the locals.
- snapplebobapple 2y agoIt will still have that monitoring it will just be under his control with multiple layers of deletion possible depending on the severity of his crimes the cameras pick up (if there is a fire in his server room you can be pretty sure he raped or murdered someone). Atleast this is the silent part you are not supposed to say out loud that i picked up vibing from his comments.
- walterbell 2y agoIf the goal of surveillance is behavior control, then invisible-to-camera status can become a commodity to be turned on/off based on evolving priorities, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41563571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41563571. A few years ago, there was news coverage of an invisible-to-surveillance list in China.
- dsq 2y ago'You can turn it off!' he said. 'Yes,' said O'Brien, 'we can turn it off. We have that privilege.' (Nineteen Eighty Four)
- water-data-dude 2y ago
- ggm 2y agoOracle sells to entities who want the processing capabilities and OLTP. Ellison is a dinosoar survivor of another era. Not every play he makes is awesome but he is a survivor. If he says this, there will be a reason behind it which goes to Oracle's bottom line. Not the politics, not what he really thinks: A reason which matches a market opportunity he thinks Oracle can seize.
- LaundroMat 2y agoThis. It reminds me of IBM pitching their services to Trump at the start of his first presidency.
- moribvndvs 2y agoLet’s start with Larry’s office.
- erikerikson 2y agoSurveillance has expanded and seems set to continue, regardless of what one may or may not prefer. It seems the important questions are whether such systems will define what is right or whether they will support the population in decentralized social decision making and synchronization the same way capitalism supports distributed allocation decisions.
- Animats 2y agoHow do we watch the stream from the camera in Larry Ellison's office?
- walterbell 2y agohttps://www.harvardmagazine.com/2016/12/the-watchers https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2016/12/the-watchers If democratic self-governance relies on an informed citizenry, Penney wrote, then “surveillance-related chilling effects,” by “deterring people from exercising their rights,” including “…the freedom to read, think, and communicate privately,” are “corrosive to political discourse.” .. “Governments, of course, know this. China.. wants people to self-censor, because it knows it can’t stop everybody. The idea is that if you don’t know where the line is, and the penalty for crossing it is severe, you will stay far away from it.. if your goal is to control a population,” Schneier says, “mass surveillance is awesome.” .. The social challenge now, [Zuboff] says, is to insist on a new social contract.. “We have to create the political context in which privacy can be successfully defended, protected, and affirmed as a human right. Then we’d have a context in which the privacy battles can be won.”
- AstralStorm 2y agoWhere do I sign that contract and how do I get you to collect on not meeting the terms, mr rich guy Zuboff?
- glandium 2y agoObligatory Bryan Cantrill quote: "You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn, you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think «oh, the lawnmower hates me», lawnmower doesn't give a shit about you, lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower. "
- BenFranklin100 2y agoIf COVID-19 taught us anything, it’s that people gladly give up civil liberties when threatened. What Ellison describes and desires could come to pass. It already is in China and the UK. The government just needs the right leverage, such as a mass terror event, in order to make it happen.
- afinlayson 2y agoI suspect the unspoken part is *of those who can't afford to pay the fines for bad behavior.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y agoDon't worry, Oracle will sue anyone who buys it into oblivion, so it won't be a threat for long.
- kkfx 2y agoFew notes: - ALL the focus is on asset allocation and ordinary people surveillance, nothing on who control AND OWN the controllers, or the "AI" mentioned; - smartphones, mobile connectivity the key to make people pay the surveillance, obviously for the profit of the controller. Instead of FTTH to focus on stable and high performance links to WFH focus on mobile surveillance, I'm curious why we IT workers do no agree a MASSIVE, WORLDWIDE STRIKE asking for mandatory WFH for all eligible jobs "we run the nervous system of the society, we build it, we will not be flesh-based bots of some manager in a smart-city lager", and focus on desktop computing instead of mobile, because here happen anything else.
- deafpolygon 2y agoThis smells of 1984 idolatry.
- jeisc 2y agoperfect for a thought controlled society run by a despot
- krapp 2y agoLooks like another rich asshole needs a guillotine delivered to their front door.
- cranberryturkey 2y agoWhat if the ancient civilizations are actually future-humans who go back in time to ensure their species survival (us) after a cataclysmic event (ie: dinosaurs) wipes out humanity? The grays are said to be a fusion of human/ai
- jacknews 2y ago"Citizens will be on their best behavior..." ... and certainly wont be throwing IoT remotes against the wall in anger, publicly berating employees, or storming off angrily in their F1s, etc, etc. Hypocritical jerk.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]