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Commute really is key. When I used to have a 15-minute bike commute, I voluntarily went to the office five days a week. The 30 minutes spent each day is just go

by kccqzy 2y ago

Commute really is key. When I used to have a 15-minute bike commute, I voluntarily went to the office five days a week. The 30 minutes spent each day is just good exercise. Now I take the train that's 30 minutes long each way. I don't get the benefit of exercise, the time spent is doubled, and now I'm only going to the office three days a week.

justanorherhack 2y ago
At least you can be productive ish on the train, sitting in the car for a daily dose of near death experience is even worse.
- dbetteridge 2y ago
  Not sure which trains you're taking but any I've been on during peak times are standing room crush, no space for laptops or working
  - Aachen 2y ago
    Most trains I've commuted on (in the Netherlands and Germany this is) weren't like that 9 out of 10 days. How well you can work differs per line, year, time of day, and type of train, but overall I'd agree more with GP than with your experience. Both exist, of course
    - mimischi 2y ago
      Sure. That's a very biased way of looking at things. RBs/REs, and even S-/U-Bahn are likely to have ample seating even during "rush hours" in most of Germany. But it sounds like you've never seen cities like London during rush hour? Tubes are tightly packed with people. Even if you get a seat, it's unlikely you'll feel comfortable bringing out your laptop. I've got a friend who does indeed commute ~50min to Cambridge by train and gets some work done. But that's rather the exception for a city like London. Many people will have similarly long commutes just being stuck inside the tube with little space to maneuver.
      - Aachen 2y ago
        I'm sure you can find more big-name examples like London but that some of the biggest cities out there are packed neither invalidates everyone else's experience nor should be a major surprise methinks. Probably more biased than looking at how the remaining 95% of the system runs? Of course, either extreme is biased
      - rconti 2y ago
        And anyway, saying you can be productive in a 30 minute train ride comes from the same mentality that says you can knock out some work "between meetings" when your calendar is a swiss cheese of meetings. It's not nothing, I guess, but it's sure not any kind of productive focus time, even in the best of scenarios.
consteval 2y ago
It's really more complicated than this, because often commute has an inverse relationship with cost. The longer you commute, the more you save. Sure, you could say going to office isn't too bad if you're 15 minutes away. But at 15 minutes away you're paying double for housing than if you were 90 minutes away. So even in the ideal scenario, RTO can be perceived as a huge pay cut.
- kccqzy 2y ago
  I said I already don't enjoy a 30-minute commute. Even if housing is free I would not choose a 90-minute commute.
  - consteval 2y ago
    Right, I'm articulating one cost of RTO people often don't consider. For many, it could easily be the equivalent of a 20%+ salary deduction due to cost of living.

by kccqzy 2y ago

justanorherhack 2y ago

At least you can be productive ish on the train, sitting in the car for a daily dose of near death experience is even worse.

dbetteridge 2y ago
Not sure which trains you're taking but any I've been on during peak times are standing room crush, no space for laptops or working
- Aachen 2y ago
  Most trains I've commuted on (in the Netherlands and Germany this is) weren't like that 9 out of 10 days. How well you can work differs per line, year, time of day, and type of train, but overall I'd agree more with GP than with your experience. Both exist, of course
  - mimischi 2y ago
    Sure. That's a very biased way of looking at things. RBs/REs, and even S-/U-Bahn are likely to have ample seating even during "rush hours" in most of Germany. But it sounds like you've never seen cities like London during rush hour? Tubes are tightly packed with people. Even if you get a seat, it's unlikely you'll feel comfortable bringing out your laptop. I've got a friend who does indeed commute ~50min to Cambridge by train and gets some work done. But that's rather the exception for a city like London. Many people will have similarly long commutes just being stuck inside the tube with little space to maneuver.
    - Aachen 2y ago
      I'm sure you can find more big-name examples like London but that some of the biggest cities out there are packed neither invalidates everyone else's experience nor should be a major surprise methinks. Probably more biased than looking at how the remaining 95% of the system runs? Of course, either extreme is biased
    - rconti 2y ago
      And anyway, saying you can be productive in a 30 minute train ride comes from the same mentality that says you can knock out some work "between meetings" when your calendar is a swiss cheese of meetings. It's not nothing, I guess, but it's sure not any kind of productive focus time, even in the best of scenarios.

consteval 2y ago

It's really more complicated than this, because often commute has an inverse relationship with cost. The longer you commute, the more you save. Sure, you could say going to office isn't too bad if you're 15 minutes away. But at 15 minutes away you're paying double for housing than if you were 90 minutes away. So even in the ideal scenario, RTO can be perceived as a huge pay cut.

kccqzy 2y ago
I said I already don't enjoy a 30-minute commute. Even if housing is free I would not choose a 90-minute commute.
- consteval 2y ago
  Right, I'm articulating one cost of RTO people often don't consider. For many, it could easily be the equivalent of a 20%+ salary deduction due to cost of living.