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Top 3 Hacker News Threads on SA... The Demise of Scientific American (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29778348) 413 comments The Shameful Decline of

Top 3 Hacker News Threads on SA... The Demise of Scientific American (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29778348) 413 comments The Shameful Decline of Scientific American (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29951406) 235 comments Scientific American does an hit job on E. O. Wilson, calling him a racist (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29741171) 45 comments And the last HN discussion on SA endorsing Joe Biden... First time in 175 years, Scientific American endorses a presidential candidate (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24485394) 99 comments

xhkkffbf 2y ago
I'm a totally moderate extreme left winger, but I think this is a big mistake. Science has always been about logic and experimental proof, not political gamesmanship. Yeah, I know politics is part of everything, but I think this hurts the cause for science in a big way. Better to be neutral.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  Large organizations staying neutral is why y'all got into this mess in the first place. Climate change denialism should have been met with hard resistance when it first appeared. Taking a stand now is the bare minimum. Assuming the GOP wins, it's game over for a lot of science in the US - anything that goes against Big Oil is first on the chopping block. Always remember Sharpiegate [1], that was just an indication of what will come. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Dorian%E2%80%93Alabama_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Dorian%E2%80%93Alaba...
  - joelaaronseely 2y ago
    You can have my cup of koolaid - I'm not thirsty.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    > anything that goes against Big Oil is first on the chopping block. You realize that the US is producing the most oil in history under the current administration, right?
    - blastonico 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - tzs 2y ago
      The Biden administration's approach to energy is mostly an "all of the above" approach. Expand oil and natural gas, expand solar and wind, promote more efficient cars and appliances, encourage EVs, etc. The Trump approach is to expand oil, gas, and coal and hostility to wind, solar, and efficient cars and appliances.
  - litoE 2y ago
    I have always believed that sharpiegate was the result of Trump being told the Bahamas would be hit by the hurricane (they were), him misunderstanding it as Alabama and later being incapable of admitting his mistake.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > Better to be neutral. Is it? Should Scientific American take a neutral stance on creationism, or healing crystals, or the Time Cube theory? Or should they take a factual stance?
  - karmakurtisaani 2y ago
    It's funny how people can clearly see what Trump is, and yet argue on an abstract level as if he was just like any other candidate. Staying neutral now could mean fighting an endless uphill battle later on when science and intellectuals are attacked for stating studied facts, and nonsense is served from the highest office.
  - hackeraccount 2y ago
    Endorsing a candidate isn't a factual stance. It's politics. There's a factual answer to Abortion is right or wrong? Or we should have more immigrants or fewer? We should spend money stop global warming or not? Unearned capital gains should be taxed? Facts are used for all of those things because they all devolve into arguments and facts are handy in an argument. That's not what they're really about though. They're about trade offs and preferences. They're about deciding what's right and wrong. SA or Science in general gets involved in that and they won't be helping to win an argument. They'll be destroying trust.
    - chipdart 2y ago
      > Endorsing a candidate isn't a factual stance. Rejecting an obscurantist, anti-science candidate is in line with supporting and defending basic science. You are not defending the importance of evidence-based science if you do not call out the candidate with a blatant obscurantist and anti-intelectual agenda, which already negatively impacted millions of people. And I'm not even touching on the systematic threats against basic education.
      - hackeraccount 2y ago
        If I say candidate X is an idiot whose policies will impoverish millions then everyone understands I'm making a value judgement. I can use facts to back up that judgment but at heart it's not about facts, it's about goals. It's politics. I think there's a plausible argument that Science shouldn't be value neutral but the opposite of that is just as dangerous. Historically it's not to think that a lot of harm has been caused by people with an agenda who either claimed or even genuinely believed they were just looking at facts.
tmaly 2y ago
It does not seem very "Scientific" in the same way OpenAI does not seem very "Open". Honestly, it is a bad move in my opinion. If you want to be seen as impartial, you should stay impartial.

xhkkffbf 2y ago

I'm a totally moderate extreme left winger, but I think this is a big mistake. Science has always been about logic and experimental proof, not political gamesmanship. Yeah, I know politics is part of everything, but I think this hurts the cause for science in a big way. Better to be neutral.

mschuster91 2y ago
Large organizations staying neutral is why y'all got into this mess in the first place. Climate change denialism should have been met with hard resistance when it first appeared. Taking a stand now is the bare minimum. Assuming the GOP wins, it's game over for a lot of science in the US - anything that goes against Big Oil is first on the chopping block. Always remember Sharpiegate [1], that was just an indication of what will come. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Dorian%E2%80%93Alabama_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Dorian%E2%80%93Alaba...
- joelaaronseely 2y ago
  You can have my cup of koolaid - I'm not thirsty.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  > anything that goes against Big Oil is first on the chopping block. You realize that the US is producing the most oil in history under the current administration, right?
  - blastonico 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - tzs 2y ago
    The Biden administration's approach to energy is mostly an "all of the above" approach. Expand oil and natural gas, expand solar and wind, promote more efficient cars and appliances, encourage EVs, etc. The Trump approach is to expand oil, gas, and coal and hostility to wind, solar, and efficient cars and appliances.
- litoE 2y ago
  I have always believed that sharpiegate was the result of Trump being told the Bahamas would be hit by the hurricane (they were), him misunderstanding it as Alabama and later being incapable of admitting his mistake.
ceejayoz 2y ago
> Better to be neutral. Is it? Should Scientific American take a neutral stance on creationism, or healing crystals, or the Time Cube theory? Or should they take a factual stance?
- karmakurtisaani 2y ago
  It's funny how people can clearly see what Trump is, and yet argue on an abstract level as if he was just like any other candidate. Staying neutral now could mean fighting an endless uphill battle later on when science and intellectuals are attacked for stating studied facts, and nonsense is served from the highest office.
- hackeraccount 2y ago
  Endorsing a candidate isn't a factual stance. It's politics. There's a factual answer to Abortion is right or wrong? Or we should have more immigrants or fewer? We should spend money stop global warming or not? Unearned capital gains should be taxed? Facts are used for all of those things because they all devolve into arguments and facts are handy in an argument. That's not what they're really about though. They're about trade offs and preferences. They're about deciding what's right and wrong. SA or Science in general gets involved in that and they won't be helping to win an argument. They'll be destroying trust.
  - chipdart 2y ago
    > Endorsing a candidate isn't a factual stance. Rejecting an obscurantist, anti-science candidate is in line with supporting and defending basic science. You are not defending the importance of evidence-based science if you do not call out the candidate with a blatant obscurantist and anti-intelectual agenda, which already negatively impacted millions of people. And I'm not even touching on the systematic threats against basic education.
    - hackeraccount 2y ago
      If I say candidate X is an idiot whose policies will impoverish millions then everyone understands I'm making a value judgement. I can use facts to back up that judgment but at heart it's not about facts, it's about goals. It's politics. I think there's a plausible argument that Science shouldn't be value neutral but the opposite of that is just as dangerous. Historically it's not to think that a lot of harm has been caused by people with an agenda who either claimed or even genuinely believed they were just looking at facts.

tmaly 2y ago

It does not seem very "Scientific" in the same way OpenAI does not seem very "Open". Honestly, it is a bad move in my opinion. If you want to be seen as impartial, you should stay impartial.