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Worked there for 7 years (left in 2021) and this is an accurate summary of my experience there. Adding on thoughts: One of my biggest gripes was that "make a

Worked there for 7 years (left in 2021) and this is an accurate summary of my experience there. Adding on thoughts: One of my biggest gripes was that "make a good marketing opportunity at Re:Invent" seemed to become more important than "release beloved software that makes the lives of our customers easier" by the time I left (not that I was working on anything for reinvent in my final years there). I will add that I learned a TON from AWS, and got to practice much of it too. It's the best boot camp one could ask for regarding general skill development imo (not particular frameworks etc but like, the theory and practice). There's also some things I miss like the weekly ops review and the general engineering culture, especially when it came to explicitly listing service limits, API specs, and cost up front in your design. Oh, and I honestly miss the docs culture. Quip wasn't as good as Google docs but the actual docs themselves and process of authoring them were SUPER valuable. Coding wise, CDK was so much better than terraform (once we moved to CDK from lpt+cfn, which was way worse imo). Smithy and open API are neato too (@smithy externally everyone uses thrift it seems, but the overlap of functionality/use cases isn't identical). Probably the biggest thing I miss was bones (kind of successor to octane), which is kind of like yeoman or create react app but would include so so much of the excellent internal tooling of ci/CD approval actions. I don't know of a real external equivalent, but would love to have one. If you ever see a Breland Miley or Ian Mosher apply to your company, HIRE THEM IMMEDIATELY. (There was another really solid guy on that team but their name escapes me at the moment, and here's hoping I got the spelling right) Oh, also isengard is still easier to use than okta or AWS organizations to manage accounts imo.

trallnag 2y ago
When you talk about docs at AWS, do you mean internal documentation or the public one?
- strivingtobe 2y ago
  Neither, they're talking about the culture of writing documents as a form of sharing ideas. Where other companies might use powerpoint presentations or unstructured meetings to brainstorm on ideas, Amazon instead encourages people to write a document summarizing their thoughts, and then there is a meeting where people silently read and comment on the document, and then afterwards discuss it.
  - hughesjj 2y ago
    ^ exactly, thanks for taking the answer perfectly. It's basically panel 2 from this: https://xkcd.com/568/ https://xkcd.com/568/ Beyond the initial publication of the doc, the peer review process is much more sane than trying to review a bunch of power point slides. Similarly, it's much much easier to refer to a well written document when it comes time to implement or reevaluate an idea than going over some power point slides and maybe an associated recording, to say nothing about searchability, discoverability, and maintainability of an actual written document vs PowerPoint slides. Also, idle side speculation: I wonder how much (if any) one of the underappreciated early employees @ Amazon had a hand in proselytizing this, given she (MacKenzie) is an author.
  - heap_perms 2y ago
    This is Bezos talking about this: https://youtu.be/e47wAgIhZ7o?si=LKZxoabqrCSCQ1ki&t=64 https://youtu.be/e47wAgIhZ7o?si=LKZxoabqrCSCQ1ki&t=64
  - JonChesterfield 2y ago
    That's an extremely sensible idea in multiple dimensions. It prioritises clarity of thought over rambling discussion in conference calls. I wonder if there's a feasible path to gradually steer an existing organisational structure in that direction.
    - dheera 2y ago
      It also means - You can't take calls from cars - People leave 2 bullshit comments like "justification needed" for participation points and then go drink coffee instead of actually reading the doc or googling for said justification - People waste inordinate amounts of time writing docs for things that could be discussed in 10 minutes
      - adriand 2y ago
        > People waste inordinate amounts of time writing docs for things that could be discussed in 10 minutes I’m very much a writing kind of person when it comes to organizing my thoughts and I worked at a place where we did a ton of written documentation kind of like this. Then I left there and worked remote with a different company whose CEO, when I sent him an email, would pick up the phone and call me. We would then have the 10 minute conversation you’re talking about here. I came to love it because it’s true, a short focused conversation can be a huge timesaver. Since then, I’m often really frustrated by vendors and partners who steadfastly refuse to get on a call, when it’s very obvious to me that a quick call would be a far better use of time than endlessly going back and forth on email.
imwillofficial 2y ago
[flagged]
hughesjj 2y ago
Commenting to myself: This looks interesting and relevant: - https://github.com/projen/projen https://github.com/projen/projen - https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/devops/getting-started-with-projen-and-aws-cdk/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/devops/getting-started-with-pro... - https://projen.io/ https://projen.io/ Looks Amazon official. Okay, I'm hype, this will be fun to play with.
- getpokedagain 2y ago
  We use projen where I work for the past year or so for new projects. It’s pretty good and the devs are pretty active in terms of responding to bugs and not being shit at documentation.
darby_nine 2y ago
> One of my biggest gripes was that "make a good marketing opportunity at Re:Invent" seemed to become more important than "release beloved software that makes the lives of our customers easier" by the time I left (not that I was working on anything for reinvent in my final years there). Was this something you knew was coming or did this behavior surprise you? I realize enshittification really ramped up over the 2010s but I have a hard time last remembering when I expected a company to aim for customer satisfaction over squeezing more revenue. Maybe tiktok? (Which has since enshittified in many ways.) The rest hurts a lot, though. It's not fun to watch the culture of a company you once had pride in sour and rot.
- hughesjj 2y ago
  I might have just drunken too much of the koolade and believed in the mythos of lowflyinghawk + customer obsession. What I meant by this is, in my personal opinion, there were a bunch of half baked products they should have just not mentioned at reinvent because said products never really materialized or had significant usage oncerns for a long, long time after the announcement. The pressure to announce more and more at reinvent while the quality of what was being announced dropped was the specific feeling I'm talking about. Sorry kind of on a caffeine high and brain isn't working too well right now. I'm also reluctant to throw shade on the products/teams I'm thinking of because I didn't work on them and I don't want to give them any heat, but I'll say it was in the 2017-2019 era I felt it start to change. I think it contrasts with the really cool launches like Lambda, Aurora, API Gateway, Sagemaker, etc that has just come out before then.
  - darby_nine 2y ago
    > The pressure to announce more and more at reinvent while the quality of what was being announced dropped was the specific feeling I'm talking about. Yea, I can certainly see this making one feel claustrophobic.
bobnamob 2y ago
Ian finished last week :( Pipelines, BT and Isengard are absolutely what I'll miss the most as well (I handed in my resignation notice last week, prior to all this RTO2.0 kerfuffle)

trallnag 2y ago

When you talk about docs at AWS, do you mean internal documentation or the public one?

strivingtobe 2y ago
Neither, they're talking about the culture of writing documents as a form of sharing ideas. Where other companies might use powerpoint presentations or unstructured meetings to brainstorm on ideas, Amazon instead encourages people to write a document summarizing their thoughts, and then there is a meeting where people silently read and comment on the document, and then afterwards discuss it.
- hughesjj 2y ago
  ^ exactly, thanks for taking the answer perfectly. It's basically panel 2 from this: https://xkcd.com/568/ https://xkcd.com/568/ Beyond the initial publication of the doc, the peer review process is much more sane than trying to review a bunch of power point slides. Similarly, it's much much easier to refer to a well written document when it comes time to implement or reevaluate an idea than going over some power point slides and maybe an associated recording, to say nothing about searchability, discoverability, and maintainability of an actual written document vs PowerPoint slides. Also, idle side speculation: I wonder how much (if any) one of the underappreciated early employees @ Amazon had a hand in proselytizing this, given she (MacKenzie) is an author.
- heap_perms 2y ago
  This is Bezos talking about this: https://youtu.be/e47wAgIhZ7o?si=LKZxoabqrCSCQ1ki&t=64 https://youtu.be/e47wAgIhZ7o?si=LKZxoabqrCSCQ1ki&t=64
- JonChesterfield 2y ago
  That's an extremely sensible idea in multiple dimensions. It prioritises clarity of thought over rambling discussion in conference calls. I wonder if there's a feasible path to gradually steer an existing organisational structure in that direction.
  - dheera 2y ago
    It also means - You can't take calls from cars - People leave 2 bullshit comments like "justification needed" for participation points and then go drink coffee instead of actually reading the doc or googling for said justification - People waste inordinate amounts of time writing docs for things that could be discussed in 10 minutes
    - adriand 2y ago
      > People waste inordinate amounts of time writing docs for things that could be discussed in 10 minutes I’m very much a writing kind of person when it comes to organizing my thoughts and I worked at a place where we did a ton of written documentation kind of like this. Then I left there and worked remote with a different company whose CEO, when I sent him an email, would pick up the phone and call me. We would then have the 10 minute conversation you’re talking about here. I came to love it because it’s true, a short focused conversation can be a huge timesaver. Since then, I’m often really frustrated by vendors and partners who steadfastly refuse to get on a call, when it’s very obvious to me that a quick call would be a far better use of time than endlessly going back and forth on email.

imwillofficial 2y ago

[flagged]

hughesjj 2y ago

Commenting to myself: This looks interesting and relevant: - https://github.com/projen/projen https://github.com/projen/projen - https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/devops/getting-started-with-projen-and-aws-cdk/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/devops/getting-started-with-pro... - https://projen.io/ https://projen.io/ Looks Amazon official. Okay, I'm hype, this will be fun to play with.

getpokedagain 2y ago
We use projen where I work for the past year or so for new projects. It’s pretty good and the devs are pretty active in terms of responding to bugs and not being shit at documentation.

darby_nine 2y ago

> One of my biggest gripes was that "make a good marketing opportunity at Re:Invent" seemed to become more important than "release beloved software that makes the lives of our customers easier" by the time I left (not that I was working on anything for reinvent in my final years there). Was this something you knew was coming or did this behavior surprise you? I realize enshittification really ramped up over the 2010s but I have a hard time last remembering when I expected a company to aim for customer satisfaction over squeezing more revenue. Maybe tiktok? (Which has since enshittified in many ways.) The rest hurts a lot, though. It's not fun to watch the culture of a company you once had pride in sour and rot.

hughesjj 2y ago
I might have just drunken too much of the koolade and believed in the mythos of lowflyinghawk + customer obsession. What I meant by this is, in my personal opinion, there were a bunch of half baked products they should have just not mentioned at reinvent because said products never really materialized or had significant usage oncerns for a long, long time after the announcement. The pressure to announce more and more at reinvent while the quality of what was being announced dropped was the specific feeling I'm talking about. Sorry kind of on a caffeine high and brain isn't working too well right now. I'm also reluctant to throw shade on the products/teams I'm thinking of because I didn't work on them and I don't want to give them any heat, but I'll say it was in the 2017-2019 era I felt it start to change. I think it contrasts with the really cool launches like Lambda, Aurora, API Gateway, Sagemaker, etc that has just come out before then.
- darby_nine 2y ago
  > The pressure to announce more and more at reinvent while the quality of what was being announced dropped was the specific feeling I'm talking about. Yea, I can certainly see this making one feel claustrophobic.

bobnamob 2y ago

Ian finished last week :( Pipelines, BT and Isengard are absolutely what I'll miss the most as well (I handed in my resignation notice last week, prior to all this RTO2.0 kerfuffle)