6 ms·

I've heard from people working there that Amazon tech is full of Indian managers. And the "hearsay" here in Mexico is that Indian work "ethic" is terrible. That

I've heard from people working there that Amazon tech is full of Indian managers. And the "hearsay" here in Mexico is that Indian work "ethic" is terrible. That they are terrible bosses (same with TCS and HCL who also have lots of positions here in Mexico). A Mex programmers subredddit r/taquerosprogramadores has plenty of stories about that. Maybe it's just the structure AZ has established for Mexico. No idea.

red-iron-pine 2y ago
heard similar things about challenges getting a lot of near-shoring tech (chip fabs, etc) set up in MX
- xtracto 2y ago
  Right. There's even an in-famous story of 3DFX lost the 3d graphic cards war: The quality of cards made in Mexico just couldn't compete with that of Asian countries. https://level2.vc/a-short-story-of-3dfx/ https://level2.vc/a-short-story-of-3dfx/
forty 2y ago
Beware of generalizing behaviors and qualities based off people races and origins. This is what is called racism and is frowned upon or illegal in many places. If it helps you, I have one counter example handy: I have had an excellent Indian manager.
- trallnag 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - samatman 2y ago
    That definition sounds very convenient for someone who wants to be racist to a group they've decided has institutional power. I can see why such a person would want to twist the plain meaning of an understood term in such a nakedly manipulative way.
    - trallnag 2y ago
      It's a thing. There's a whole Wikipedia article about it, with quite some references. Enjoy the rabbit hole
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - wan23 2y ago
    This is one of those cases where a word can have multiple meanings. And anyway, prejudice based on national origin is, in fact, frowned upon no matter what you call it.
  - pawelmurias 2y ago
    Those scholar use a particularly racist definition.
  - ipaddr 2y ago
    Some scholars think it's making judgement based on race. Others scholars think only those in power opinions matters and those without power can make judgements based on race and that wouldn't be considered racism. Others think it's a natural and norm thing based on tribalism. But in your example a person of color would have a higher status in America compared to an Indian national. So the person of color is being racist. In the future the only acceptable version will be the first because keeping track of who had power in what context is going to be impossible to track and can get easily shifted. That's the definition the law uses currently.
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    > To many scholars in the US racism requires institutional power to codify it. Yes, that's because many scholars in the US are intellectually dishonest and wish to redefine "racism" in ways that benefit their arguments.
- tomrod 2y ago
  Close, that's the definition of stereotyping based on race and can lend to bigoted acts and decisions. Racism emcompasses a bit of a different scope, including policy, institutional structures, and norms, of which stereotypes is directly related to norms and can be indirectly influential on the others.
  - forty 2y ago
    Interesting. The word "racisme" in French has also yet another meaning: the word "race" (identical spelling in French) cannot be used for human beings in French (works for cows and dogs) as "racime" is defined by the belief that there are several human "races" (which is scientifically wrong). The word race as used in English is translated by something like "ethnical group" for example. However, the comment I originally reacted to would be definitely qualified as being "raciste" by most French speakers (and be illegal in France)
    - booleandilemma 2y ago
      English and America make the distinction between race and ethnic group.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - forty 2y ago
        Well I definitely have seen race used for humans in English, where ethnic group would have been correct as their is only one human race, which is why I believe the distinction is more blurry in English
    - dasudasu 2y ago
      The word definitely is completely idiomatic with regard to humans in French. Look up any dictionary definition. And there’s no law making it illegal in France. Besides, even if it had such a law, the French state doesn’t have a monopoly on the French language. It’s an official language in 29 countries.
- dangsux 2y ago
  [dead]
- xtracto 2y ago
  Ooh and I've worked with several Indian people who are great as well. I was just mentioning the stereotype of how mexican people in tech see them. I even had a great indian engineer who emigrated from India (his parents are still there) who actually complained about Indian work culture. It's like myself when I complain about mexican culture (for work, ethics, corruption or mediocrity)... I know that not everyone is like that, but shit where I'm from (southeast Mexico, Campeche) you'll be lucky to find someone that breaks the stereotype. And I've several friends still there.. I just don't like the education and vslues society imparts us there
  - forty 2y ago
    Re-reading your comment, it's indeed clear that you were reporting other people point of view, sorry for the accusing tone.
feyman_r 2y ago
The chances of your having a manager of Indian descent are higher in tech compared to other professions. That's a function of the 'ingestion pipeline' that's built through the US education system (H1B through higher-education). In a high-expectations field (tech), coupled with a high-expectation company (Amazon), folks who manage to stay back, tend to be seen more, and will be rewarded by being managers (till Peter Principle kicks in). Most middle managers in exacting teams (for products like AWS) are likely to be demanding. My hypothesis is that a part of what you're observing is just some form of 'survivorship bias' - changing jobs with visas isn't easy (been there done that) so folks are more willing to 'bend' to the culture being driven internally than just moving out (esp. with the long wait times). At some point, its hard to distinguish the people from the culture, and what came first, but that's a different conversation.

red-iron-pine 2y ago

heard similar things about challenges getting a lot of near-shoring tech (chip fabs, etc) set up in MX

xtracto 2y ago
Right. There's even an in-famous story of 3DFX lost the 3d graphic cards war: The quality of cards made in Mexico just couldn't compete with that of Asian countries. https://level2.vc/a-short-story-of-3dfx/ https://level2.vc/a-short-story-of-3dfx/

forty 2y ago

Beware of generalizing behaviors and qualities based off people races and origins. This is what is called racism and is frowned upon or illegal in many places. If it helps you, I have one counter example handy: I have had an excellent Indian manager.

trallnag 2y ago
[flagged]
- samatman 2y ago
  That definition sounds very convenient for someone who wants to be racist to a group they've decided has institutional power. I can see why such a person would want to twist the plain meaning of an understood term in such a nakedly manipulative way.
  - trallnag 2y ago
    It's a thing. There's a whole Wikipedia article about it, with quite some references. Enjoy the rabbit hole
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- wan23 2y ago
  This is one of those cases where a word can have multiple meanings. And anyway, prejudice based on national origin is, in fact, frowned upon no matter what you call it.
- pawelmurias 2y ago
  Those scholar use a particularly racist definition.
- ipaddr 2y ago
  Some scholars think it's making judgement based on race. Others scholars think only those in power opinions matters and those without power can make judgements based on race and that wouldn't be considered racism. Others think it's a natural and norm thing based on tribalism. But in your example a person of color would have a higher status in America compared to an Indian national. So the person of color is being racist. In the future the only acceptable version will be the first because keeping track of who had power in what context is going to be impossible to track and can get easily shifted. That's the definition the law uses currently.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  > To many scholars in the US racism requires institutional power to codify it. Yes, that's because many scholars in the US are intellectually dishonest and wish to redefine "racism" in ways that benefit their arguments.
tomrod 2y ago
Close, that's the definition of stereotyping based on race and can lend to bigoted acts and decisions. Racism emcompasses a bit of a different scope, including policy, institutional structures, and norms, of which stereotypes is directly related to norms and can be indirectly influential on the others.
- forty 2y ago
  Interesting. The word "racisme" in French has also yet another meaning: the word "race" (identical spelling in French) cannot be used for human beings in French (works for cows and dogs) as "racime" is defined by the belief that there are several human "races" (which is scientifically wrong). The word race as used in English is translated by something like "ethnical group" for example. However, the comment I originally reacted to would be definitely qualified as being "raciste" by most French speakers (and be illegal in France)
  - booleandilemma 2y ago
    English and America make the distinction between race and ethnic group.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - forty 2y ago
      Well I definitely have seen race used for humans in English, where ethnic group would have been correct as their is only one human race, which is why I believe the distinction is more blurry in English
  - dasudasu 2y ago
    The word definitely is completely idiomatic with regard to humans in French. Look up any dictionary definition. And there’s no law making it illegal in France. Besides, even if it had such a law, the French state doesn’t have a monopoly on the French language. It’s an official language in 29 countries.
dangsux 2y ago
[dead]
xtracto 2y ago
Ooh and I've worked with several Indian people who are great as well. I was just mentioning the stereotype of how mexican people in tech see them. I even had a great indian engineer who emigrated from India (his parents are still there) who actually complained about Indian work culture. It's like myself when I complain about mexican culture (for work, ethics, corruption or mediocrity)... I know that not everyone is like that, but shit where I'm from (southeast Mexico, Campeche) you'll be lucky to find someone that breaks the stereotype. And I've several friends still there.. I just don't like the education and vslues society imparts us there
- forty 2y ago
  Re-reading your comment, it's indeed clear that you were reporting other people point of view, sorry for the accusing tone.

feyman_r 2y ago

The chances of your having a manager of Indian descent are higher in tech compared to other professions. That's a function of the 'ingestion pipeline' that's built through the US education system (H1B through higher-education). In a high-expectations field (tech), coupled with a high-expectation company (Amazon), folks who manage to stay back, tend to be seen more, and will be rewarded by being managers (till Peter Principle kicks in). Most middle managers in exacting teams (for products like AWS) are likely to be demanding. My hypothesis is that a part of what you're observing is just some form of 'survivorship bias' - changing jobs with visas isn't easy (been there done that) so folks are more willing to 'bend' to the culture being driven internally than just moving out (esp. with the long wait times). At some point, its hard to distinguish the people from the culture, and what came first, but that's a different conversation.