5 ms·

It exists in the same line of argumentation as being against student loan debt forgiveness because one had to pay off one's own loans, except about something th

It exists in the same line of argumentation as being against student loan debt forgiveness because one had to pay off one's own loans, except about something that is even more determined by one's birth.

borroka 2y ago
Some alleles give people a tendency to gain weight via a higher appetite, slower metabolism, addiction to substances (in this case food). But no matter your alleles, you still have to pick up your fork and start attacking those triple portions of nachos. Let's not forget that 1-2 generations ago, the percentage of obese people was much lower than today, but the proportions of the above-mentioned alleles are very unlikely to have changed in 30-50 years.
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  Perhaps food is more ultra-processed now. Micro-plastics. Gut flora disruption. Seed oils. 5G vaccines. Name a fad and there's a [whatever the antonym for panacea is] for why obesity rates are higher.
  - goostavos 2y ago
    It's feels unfair that a single Halloween Oreo cookie is 70 calories. The caloric density of modern and delicious food is absolutely insane. And so, aside from a rare treat, which mostly leaves me sad (because I only get to eat two), I eat things that aren't ultra-processed 5G seed oil based. And my weight remains controlled despite said 5G vaccines, seed oils, and gut flora disruption. Ozympic seems like a net good if it helps people control their weight. It just always seems preposterous when people blame "ultra-processed food" as the root problem, rather than the over consumption of said food as the problem.
    - borroka 2y ago
      I wrote that someone has to pick up that fork to eat those nachos. However, processed food makes it easier to eat more calories than you need. Ice cream used to be a once-a-week treat. Now, you can buy a pint of a caloric bomb for 2.99 USD. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy, but as someone who exercises frequently and eats similar food when traveling, I can say with conviction that something is going on with the food sold in the US. For example, I often get pimples on my face after eating pork or beef in the US. I never get pimples when I eat pork or beef in Europe or South America. I have more problems not getting fat when I'm in the US and I feel more bloated. The usual explanation, which has merit, is that portions are bigger in the US and people move less than in other countries. However, I eat 95% of my meals at home, cooked by me, and I exercise 1 or 2 times daily.
asdfman123 2y ago
>It exists in the same line of argumentation as being against student loan debt forgiveness because one had to pay off one's own loans No, it doesn't. There's no fixed national budget for weight loss. There's also not perverse incentives that come with subsidizing supply. It's not an economic question.
- borski 2y ago
  There are other valid arguments. The one the parent mentioned is not a valid argument, and it was only in that sense that it was mentioned.
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  There are valid policy-based arguments to be had against student debt loan forgiveness, but the personal grievance of "why should they get a break when I paid off my debt?" is not one.
  - asdfman123 2y ago
    It's basic fairness. Basic fairness is probably the most important component of all political discussions.
randomdata 2y ago
In order to forgive a debt, someone else has to assume the debt. Nobody cares about that in general. If, say, someone's parent assumes the student debt of their child, you are not going to hear a thing. But when it is government forgiveness the constituents of that government often feel they are being left the bag holder, which is where you start to see complaint. If you lose weight on Ozempic, there is no evidence that someone else needs to assume the weight you lost, so it is not clear where you find a parallel.
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  The parallel is "I had to work hard to lose weight / maintain my low weight, why should they get a magic pill?" Unfairness can be perceived even when it only exists in a vague cosmic sense and has no bearing in material reality.
  - randomdata 2y ago
    I think you forgot to mention the parallel? I guess, seemingly, that would be "I had to work hard to pay my student debt, why should they get to have their parents pay for it?" but that is not a sentiment that is common enough to speak of. Yeah, sure, I'm sure at least one person in history has had that thought before, but not the point of it being notable to talk about on HN. Most people who see another have their loans paid for think "Good for them". There must be something else? The "I had to work hard to pay my student loan, and now I have to work hard to pay yours too?" sentiment is much more common and I could see that show up here, but it is not a parallel. That's a very different idea that has no parallel. I don't have to work off the weight you lost.
    - Apocryphon 2y ago
      The parallel was always there: "being against student loan debt forgiveness because one had to pay off one's own loans" > but that is not a sentiment that is common enough to speak of It crops up every time the issue is discussed online. On places like Twitter, at least. > I don't have to work off the weight you lost. Again, this blend of envy, spite, and petty injustice crops up quite often. "Why did I have to exercise when they could afford a gastric bypass?" You seem unfamiliar with how petty people can be online. There are plenty of people who get personally aggrieved when they think someone got a free lunch / might get a free lunch even when the lunch isn't paid by them / they were unfortunate enough to miss out on free lunch day. > that is not a sentiment that is common enough to speak of Sure it is.
ddj231 2y ago
Isn’t it different with student loan forgiveness, because the money isn’t coming out of thin air but rather taxation?

borroka 2y ago

Some alleles give people a tendency to gain weight via a higher appetite, slower metabolism, addiction to substances (in this case food). But no matter your alleles, you still have to pick up your fork and start attacking those triple portions of nachos. Let's not forget that 1-2 generations ago, the percentage of obese people was much lower than today, but the proportions of the above-mentioned alleles are very unlikely to have changed in 30-50 years.

Apocryphon 2y ago
Perhaps food is more ultra-processed now. Micro-plastics. Gut flora disruption. Seed oils. 5G vaccines. Name a fad and there's a [whatever the antonym for panacea is] for why obesity rates are higher.
- goostavos 2y ago
  It's feels unfair that a single Halloween Oreo cookie is 70 calories. The caloric density of modern and delicious food is absolutely insane. And so, aside from a rare treat, which mostly leaves me sad (because I only get to eat two), I eat things that aren't ultra-processed 5G seed oil based. And my weight remains controlled despite said 5G vaccines, seed oils, and gut flora disruption. Ozympic seems like a net good if it helps people control their weight. It just always seems preposterous when people blame "ultra-processed food" as the root problem, rather than the over consumption of said food as the problem.
  - borroka 2y ago
    I wrote that someone has to pick up that fork to eat those nachos. However, processed food makes it easier to eat more calories than you need. Ice cream used to be a once-a-week treat. Now, you can buy a pint of a caloric bomb for 2.99 USD. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy, but as someone who exercises frequently and eats similar food when traveling, I can say with conviction that something is going on with the food sold in the US. For example, I often get pimples on my face after eating pork or beef in the US. I never get pimples when I eat pork or beef in Europe or South America. I have more problems not getting fat when I'm in the US and I feel more bloated. The usual explanation, which has merit, is that portions are bigger in the US and people move less than in other countries. However, I eat 95% of my meals at home, cooked by me, and I exercise 1 or 2 times daily.

asdfman123 2y ago

>It exists in the same line of argumentation as being against student loan debt forgiveness because one had to pay off one's own loans No, it doesn't. There's no fixed national budget for weight loss. There's also not perverse incentives that come with subsidizing supply. It's not an economic question.

borski 2y ago
There are other valid arguments. The one the parent mentioned is not a valid argument, and it was only in that sense that it was mentioned.
Apocryphon 2y ago
There are valid policy-based arguments to be had against student debt loan forgiveness, but the personal grievance of "why should they get a break when I paid off my debt?" is not one.
- asdfman123 2y ago
  It's basic fairness. Basic fairness is probably the most important component of all political discussions.

randomdata 2y ago

In order to forgive a debt, someone else has to assume the debt. Nobody cares about that in general. If, say, someone's parent assumes the student debt of their child, you are not going to hear a thing. But when it is government forgiveness the constituents of that government often feel they are being left the bag holder, which is where you start to see complaint. If you lose weight on Ozempic, there is no evidence that someone else needs to assume the weight you lost, so it is not clear where you find a parallel.

Apocryphon 2y ago
The parallel is "I had to work hard to lose weight / maintain my low weight, why should they get a magic pill?" Unfairness can be perceived even when it only exists in a vague cosmic sense and has no bearing in material reality.
- randomdata 2y ago
  I think you forgot to mention the parallel? I guess, seemingly, that would be "I had to work hard to pay my student debt, why should they get to have their parents pay for it?" but that is not a sentiment that is common enough to speak of. Yeah, sure, I'm sure at least one person in history has had that thought before, but not the point of it being notable to talk about on HN. Most people who see another have their loans paid for think "Good for them". There must be something else? The "I had to work hard to pay my student loan, and now I have to work hard to pay yours too?" sentiment is much more common and I could see that show up here, but it is not a parallel. That's a very different idea that has no parallel. I don't have to work off the weight you lost.
  - Apocryphon 2y ago
    The parallel was always there: "being against student loan debt forgiveness because one had to pay off one's own loans" > but that is not a sentiment that is common enough to speak of It crops up every time the issue is discussed online. On places like Twitter, at least. > I don't have to work off the weight you lost. Again, this blend of envy, spite, and petty injustice crops up quite often. "Why did I have to exercise when they could afford a gastric bypass?" You seem unfamiliar with how petty people can be online. There are plenty of people who get personally aggrieved when they think someone got a free lunch / might get a free lunch even when the lunch isn't paid by them / they were unfortunate enough to miss out on free lunch day. > that is not a sentiment that is common enough to speak of Sure it is.

ddj231 2y ago

Isn’t it different with student loan forgiveness, because the money isn’t coming out of thin air but rather taxation?