5 ms·

I wonder if engineers are going to start refusing to do on-call. "Sorry, it's going to take me an hour to get to the office because I'm not allowed to work remo

I wonder if engineers are going to start refusing to do on-call. "Sorry, it's going to take me an hour to get to the office because I'm not allowed to work remotely".

nine_zeros 2y ago
I think there should be a automatic overtime law. Every minute beyond 40 hours should be automatically billed to the company. Use the laptop spy software that companies have been conveniently using anyway to enforce this.
- geodel 2y ago
  Huh, there are exempt vs non-exempt employees and I believe all software employees are exempt (just like in all places I worked as FTE) which means they are not entitled to overtime pay. People here talk like they have just invented the wheel.
progforlyfe 2y ago
i don't agree with the mandate but at the very least, if they're going to do this they should absolutely exempt workers from returning to office during the periods they are on-call!
- Xeronate 2y ago
  when i was there and it was 3 days a week on call definitely wasn’t exempt
  - patch_cable 2y ago
    Nor was it before the pandemic.
- harshaw 2y ago
  we already do that on my team- you can hardly respond to a pager in 10 minutes if you commuting. I suppose it's an unofficial policy but we never got any pushback from it.
neofrommatrix 2y ago
Instant PIP. That's how Amazon works.
- Lord_Zero 2y ago
  People have sued and won over being asked to check emails off the clock.
wojciii 2y ago
On call? I never had to do any kind of support of any of the software products that I worked on. Why would you waste eng time on something as trivial as support? Is this an American corporate thing?
- cj 2y ago
  It's a solution to the problem of "our servers crashed at 2am, the product isn't functioning, and we have no one working right now capable of fixing it" How does it work at EU/UK companies?
  - philipwhiuk 2y ago
    idk what Wojcii does. UK companies have on-call.
  - wojciii 2y ago
    I guess this is more about the kind of software that I write and support .. during office hours only. I wouldn't dream about picking up the work phone during non-office hours since I'm never expected to.
- ativzzz 2y ago
  Do you work on software that gets sold to customers? Often, uptime guarantees are included in contracts. If your software breaks, somebody has to fix it. > Why would you waste eng time on something as trivial as support? Because eng is the only people who know how the software works if it breaks, who else can fix it? I would also say that good support is not trivial (this is not eng specific, it's a company wide initiative) and can be a competitive differentiator
  - wojciii 2y ago
    I do work on software that is used by people. Nu software is usually embedded and I both create and fix bugs. :) I just never had to be on call for anything. I fix bugs during business hours. :)
- 2y ago
interroboink 2y ago
Snark aside, that's not how oncall works at Amazon. The oncall person has a laptop (and perhaps a pager), and they are expected to remote connect ASAP when needed. That was the norm well before Covid; doesn't make sense to wait for a commute before responding. But then maybe after you do the first level of triage, if it's still ongoing, then you go in to the office.
- x86x87 2y ago
  Pending/Arrival of Technician sorry boss. stuck in traffic on 520/i90/insert your fav bridge reply 90 min later.
goostavos 2y ago
I hear a fair amount of this sentiment floating around. Not so much "I won't do oncall" but more so a deflation of moral -- if you want clock punchers, we can be clock punchers. Setting a SEV2 to "pending" does prevent you from getting re-paged during the weekend when you're at home (where work, as I understand it, does not get done).

I wonder if engineers are going to start refusing to do on-call. "Sorry, it's going to take me an hour to get to the office because I'm not allowed to work remotely".

nine_zeros 2y ago

I think there should be a automatic overtime law. Every minute beyond 40 hours should be automatically billed to the company. Use the laptop spy software that companies have been conveniently using anyway to enforce this.

geodel 2y ago
Huh, there are exempt vs non-exempt employees and I believe all software employees are exempt (just like in all places I worked as FTE) which means they are not entitled to overtime pay. People here talk like they have just invented the wheel.

progforlyfe 2y ago

i don't agree with the mandate but at the very least, if they're going to do this they should absolutely exempt workers from returning to office during the periods they are on-call!

Xeronate 2y ago
when i was there and it was 3 days a week on call definitely wasn’t exempt
- patch_cable 2y ago
  Nor was it before the pandemic.
harshaw 2y ago
we already do that on my team- you can hardly respond to a pager in 10 minutes if you commuting. I suppose it's an unofficial policy but we never got any pushback from it.

neofrommatrix 2y ago

Instant PIP. That's how Amazon works.

Lord_Zero 2y ago
People have sued and won over being asked to check emails off the clock.

wojciii 2y ago

On call? I never had to do any kind of support of any of the software products that I worked on. Why would you waste eng time on something as trivial as support? Is this an American corporate thing?

cj 2y ago
It's a solution to the problem of "our servers crashed at 2am, the product isn't functioning, and we have no one working right now capable of fixing it" How does it work at EU/UK companies?
- philipwhiuk 2y ago
  idk what Wojcii does. UK companies have on-call.
- wojciii 2y ago
  I guess this is more about the kind of software that I write and support .. during office hours only. I wouldn't dream about picking up the work phone during non-office hours since I'm never expected to.
ativzzz 2y ago
Do you work on software that gets sold to customers? Often, uptime guarantees are included in contracts. If your software breaks, somebody has to fix it. > Why would you waste eng time on something as trivial as support? Because eng is the only people who know how the software works if it breaks, who else can fix it? I would also say that good support is not trivial (this is not eng specific, it's a company wide initiative) and can be a competitive differentiator
- wojciii 2y ago
  I do work on software that is used by people. Nu software is usually embedded and I both create and fix bugs. :) I just never had to be on call for anything. I fix bugs during business hours. :)
2y ago

interroboink 2y ago

Snark aside, that's not how oncall works at Amazon. The oncall person has a laptop (and perhaps a pager), and they are expected to remote connect ASAP when needed. That was the norm well before Covid; doesn't make sense to wait for a commute before responding. But then maybe after you do the first level of triage, if it's still ongoing, then you go in to the office.

x86x87 2y ago
Pending/Arrival of Technician sorry boss. stuck in traffic on 520/i90/insert your fav bridge reply 90 min later.

goostavos 2y ago

I hear a fair amount of this sentiment floating around. Not so much "I won't do oncall" but more so a deflation of moral -- if you want clock punchers, we can be clock punchers. Setting a SEV2 to "pending" does prevent you from getting re-paged during the weekend when you're at home (where work, as I understand it, does not get done).