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> Some counterpoints: The goal would be to be more customer-focused in those cases. "No one prospers without rendering benefit to others." — Tadao Yoshida, fo

> Some counterpoints: The goal would be to be more customer-focused in those cases. "No one prospers without rendering benefit to others." — Tadao Yoshida, founder of YKK zippers, https://ykkamericas.com/our-philosophy/ https://ykkamericas.com/our-philosophy/ With MrBeast, the "best YOUTUBE video" would be one that causes engagement with the viewer throughout the video: > The creative process for every video they produce starts with the title and thumbnail. These set the expectations for the viewer, and everything that follows needs to be defined with those in mind. If a viewer feels their expectations are not being matched, they’ll click away - driving down the crucial Average View Duration that informs how much the video is promoted by YouTube’s all-important mystical algorithms. You have to both entice the viewer with the thumbnail/title, and meet the expectations of the viewer so they continue watching. Your counterexamples are a bunch of instances where the company did not meet customer expectations.

someothherguyy 2y ago
> No one prospers without rendering benefit to others Plenty of counterexamples for this as well. Snake oil salesmen, drug dealers, woo peddlers, gurus, politicians, grifters, scammers, thieves, and on and on...
CooCooCaCha 2y ago
I hate that so many people live by “wisdom” that falls apart at the slightest scrutiny…
- borroka 2y ago
  Our lives are made up of and guided by narratives that sound good and just on paper, but are empirically proven wrong time and time again. Yet they persist. Some come from the zeitgeist, others are eternal, biblical, and worse, unfalsifiable: "everything happens for a reason," "if you're meant to be together, you will be together," "just do a good job and you'll get what you deserve". The latter was voiced by my postdoc advisor, who did not take the time to look at the percentage of researchers who did good work but did not get a tenure-track position. But perhaps those who did not find jobs did not do good enough work, and the charade continues.
  - nomel 2y ago
    Almost all of his examples are/were failures, by all metrics. Cause and effect requires observation, which means there will be a time delay between when a company does something shady and when the customers realize the rug was pulled out from under them. You can't know a pinto is going to blow up before it blows up. Once people realized, it almost destroyed the company [1]. The time delay between a correction in a company is even longer, because it requires another layer of observation. None of these are proof that the error correction mechanism is broken, or that the quote is somehow untrue/fragile. Most of the egregious examples of broken feedback are those companies that make the red and blue politicians multi millionaires by the time they retire, usually with no-consequences government contracts. edit: and, this fails miserably if you don't pay any attention to the end goal, which I've seen several times. [1] https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2099001/ford-100-defective-pinto-almost-took-fords-reputation-it/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2099001/ford-100-defective-pi...
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      nit: you can indeed know a pinto would blow up before it blows up. But you go to your city square and get laughed at because they trust Ford over some car mechanic who looked deeply into the car. Of course, I'm describing a literal forum here (physical forums! good times). I wonder how many whistleblowers out there highlighted some dark pattern in the past 20 years and were cast off as a conspiracy nut. Both publicly and in internal company channels. nit2: it's so strange how times have changed. 40-50 years ago his Pinto recall was company ending. Nowadays the Cybertruck has had what? 5 recalls now? And it still has this bizarre cult behind it. What happened to people? what happened to wanting a driveable car (nevermind those truck minded audiences the cybertruck targets who claims to do more than just drive)?
      - nomel 2y ago
        nit2, here are the four Cybertruck recalls [1]. 1. Windshield wiper motor failure. 2. Loose trim from the bed. 3. Accelerator pedal can stick. 4. Wrong sized font used for the warning lights. Wiper was fixed with OTA update. Accelerator pedal was fixed on all trucks within the first week after it was discovered. > And it still has this bizarre cult behind it. That doesn't mean sales haven't been hurt, but anyone actually interested will see that the above list isn't an issue. Toyota had a similar recall some years ago, and it hurt their sales too [3]. It's a good idea to skip first model years of any car. [1] https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ [3] https://www.npr.org/2010/02/02/123283959/gas-pedal-woes-put-brakes-on-toyota-sales https://www.npr.org/2010/02/02/123283959/gas-pedal-woes-put-...
daymanstep 2y ago
> "No one prospers without rendering benefit to others." — Tadao Yoshida This quote describes how things should be, not how things actually are.
- Wolfenstein98k 2y ago
  In the long run it is true. Name a company which has prospered, over many years, without rendering benefit to its customers.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    Real estate agencies? Most middleman in general have a shakey premise for if they "benefit" their customers. On a less subjectve level, I feel the "Embrace, extend, extinguish" mentality runs counter to this ideal. the FAANGs did indeed render benefit to its customers early on. You can argue by now almost all of them 20 years later have long shifted towards being gatekeepers that employ dark patterns or outright rent seek these days, rather than acting like a customer-focused company.
  - bjourne 2y ago
    Virtually every casino and gambling company in existence.
    - alvah 2y ago
      Are you suggesting casino and bookmakers' clients derive no utility at all from gambling? In the absence of any enjoyment or other benefit, who forces the clients to participate?
      - daymanstep 2y ago
        Same argument can be made for tobacco salesmen, drug dealers etc. If people pay money for something then they MUST derive some benefit from it... I find that assumption questionable. Other things I could mention: multi-level marketing, snake oil sellers e.g. homeopathy astrology etc.
thegrimmest 2y ago
In MrBeast's case, his revenue is directly correlated with customer engagement via YouTube's algorithm. I'm sure that were it legal, gladiatorial combat would be very popular and profitable on YouTube. I suppose one could make an argument that it would therefore "beneficial". In the other aforementioned cases, in absence of an algorithm, revenue-generating activity wasn't as well correlated with meeting customer expectations. The point is that companies will always optimize for their own revenue, regardless of how well or poorly their activity meets customer expectations.

someothherguyy 2y ago

> No one prospers without rendering benefit to others Plenty of counterexamples for this as well. Snake oil salesmen, drug dealers, woo peddlers, gurus, politicians, grifters, scammers, thieves, and on and on...

CooCooCaCha 2y ago

I hate that so many people live by “wisdom” that falls apart at the slightest scrutiny…

borroka 2y ago
Our lives are made up of and guided by narratives that sound good and just on paper, but are empirically proven wrong time and time again. Yet they persist. Some come from the zeitgeist, others are eternal, biblical, and worse, unfalsifiable: "everything happens for a reason," "if you're meant to be together, you will be together," "just do a good job and you'll get what you deserve". The latter was voiced by my postdoc advisor, who did not take the time to look at the percentage of researchers who did good work but did not get a tenure-track position. But perhaps those who did not find jobs did not do good enough work, and the charade continues.
- nomel 2y ago
  Almost all of his examples are/were failures, by all metrics. Cause and effect requires observation, which means there will be a time delay between when a company does something shady and when the customers realize the rug was pulled out from under them. You can't know a pinto is going to blow up before it blows up. Once people realized, it almost destroyed the company [1]. The time delay between a correction in a company is even longer, because it requires another layer of observation. None of these are proof that the error correction mechanism is broken, or that the quote is somehow untrue/fragile. Most of the egregious examples of broken feedback are those companies that make the red and blue politicians multi millionaires by the time they retire, usually with no-consequences government contracts. edit: and, this fails miserably if you don't pay any attention to the end goal, which I've seen several times. [1] https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2099001/ford-100-defective-pinto-almost-took-fords-reputation-it/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2099001/ford-100-defective-pi...
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    nit: you can indeed know a pinto would blow up before it blows up. But you go to your city square and get laughed at because they trust Ford over some car mechanic who looked deeply into the car. Of course, I'm describing a literal forum here (physical forums! good times). I wonder how many whistleblowers out there highlighted some dark pattern in the past 20 years and were cast off as a conspiracy nut. Both publicly and in internal company channels. nit2: it's so strange how times have changed. 40-50 years ago his Pinto recall was company ending. Nowadays the Cybertruck has had what? 5 recalls now? And it still has this bizarre cult behind it. What happened to people? what happened to wanting a driveable car (nevermind those truck minded audiences the cybertruck targets who claims to do more than just drive)?
    - nomel 2y ago
      nit2, here are the four Cybertruck recalls [1]. 1. Windshield wiper motor failure. 2. Loose trim from the bed. 3. Accelerator pedal can stick. 4. Wrong sized font used for the warning lights. Wiper was fixed with OTA update. Accelerator pedal was fixed on all trucks within the first week after it was discovered. > And it still has this bizarre cult behind it. That doesn't mean sales haven't been hurt, but anyone actually interested will see that the above list isn't an issue. Toyota had a similar recall some years ago, and it hurt their sales too [3]. It's a good idea to skip first model years of any car. [1] https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ [3] https://www.npr.org/2010/02/02/123283959/gas-pedal-woes-put-brakes-on-toyota-sales https://www.npr.org/2010/02/02/123283959/gas-pedal-woes-put-...

daymanstep 2y ago

> "No one prospers without rendering benefit to others." — Tadao Yoshida This quote describes how things should be, not how things actually are.

Wolfenstein98k 2y ago
In the long run it is true. Name a company which has prospered, over many years, without rendering benefit to its customers.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  Real estate agencies? Most middleman in general have a shakey premise for if they "benefit" their customers. On a less subjectve level, I feel the "Embrace, extend, extinguish" mentality runs counter to this ideal. the FAANGs did indeed render benefit to its customers early on. You can argue by now almost all of them 20 years later have long shifted towards being gatekeepers that employ dark patterns or outright rent seek these days, rather than acting like a customer-focused company.
- bjourne 2y ago
  Virtually every casino and gambling company in existence.
  - alvah 2y ago
    Are you suggesting casino and bookmakers' clients derive no utility at all from gambling? In the absence of any enjoyment or other benefit, who forces the clients to participate?
    - daymanstep 2y ago
      Same argument can be made for tobacco salesmen, drug dealers etc. If people pay money for something then they MUST derive some benefit from it... I find that assumption questionable. Other things I could mention: multi-level marketing, snake oil sellers e.g. homeopathy astrology etc.

thegrimmest 2y ago

In MrBeast's case, his revenue is directly correlated with customer engagement via YouTube's algorithm. I'm sure that were it legal, gladiatorial combat would be very popular and profitable on YouTube. I suppose one could make an argument that it would therefore "beneficial". In the other aforementioned cases, in absence of an algorithm, revenue-generating activity wasn't as well correlated with meeting customer expectations. The point is that companies will always optimize for their own revenue, regardless of how well or poorly their activity meets customer expectations.