4 ms·

There are many reason's it made sense for MS to create their own Java-like system, but the "low quality" of the JVM implementations is not one of them. The JVM

There are many reason's it made sense for MS to create their own Java-like system, but the "low quality" of the JVM implementations is not one of them. The JVM implementations (HotSpot, IBM J9) are more efficient than the CLR in virtually any sensible benchmark you care to run and it's been that way since about December 1998. e.g. http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=csharp&lang2=java http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=al...

noblethrasher 14y ago
That shootout is between the JVM and Mono. The CLR outperforms Mono. That being said, my understanding is that JVM programs slightly outperform CLR programs in terms of speed while CLR programs do better than those on the JVM(s) in terms of memory.
- igouy 14y ago
  http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/demo/compare.php?lang=csc http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/demo/compare.php?lang=csc
dvhh 14y ago
the benchmark is pretty much irrelevant, because if it was we would all be coding in C or Fortran, or why not machine code or assembly ? On the other hand I find that the mono project (young, open source implementation ), is doing quite great against java 7 (commercial implementation, unless I misread). It would be interesting to see how the openJDK is performing ? (the real question would be : is openJDK crippled compared to the Oracle - JDK ?)
- thebluesky 14y ago
  >the benchmark is pretty much irrelevant, because if it was we would all be coding in C or Fortran The point being debated is that the JVM is being developed and advanced more rapidly than the CLR. Performance is one way to demonstrate this. Performance does matter in many cases, and most folks aren't prepared to write their web services in Fortran. >is doing quite great against java 7 (commercial implementation, unless I misread) I would hardly classify 7x slower as "quite great" >It would be interesting to see how the openJDK is performing ? (the real question would be : is openJDK crippled compared to the Oracle - JDK ?) OpenJDK runs HotSpot, so no major difference
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - igouy 14y ago
    >>I would hardly classify 7x slower as "quite great"<< When half of that difference comes from running GC on a separate core, and we know that GC has not been tuned - perhaps we should call that particular difference accidental ;-)
    - rabbitfang 14y ago
      Single core result Java still 3x faster than C#: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=csharp&lang2=java http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=all...
      - igouy 14y ago
        Yes, and now look at the second half of my comment -- "and we know that GC has not been tuned" :-) Start off with a different initial and maximum heap size (or a different GC option!) and the results may be different.

noblethrasher 14y ago

That shootout is between the JVM and Mono. The CLR outperforms Mono. That being said, my understanding is that JVM programs slightly outperform CLR programs in terms of speed while CLR programs do better than those on the JVM(s) in terms of memory.

igouy 14y ago
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/demo/compare.php?lang=csc http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/demo/compare.php?lang=csc

dvhh 14y ago

the benchmark is pretty much irrelevant, because if it was we would all be coding in C or Fortran, or why not machine code or assembly ? On the other hand I find that the mono project (young, open source implementation ), is doing quite great against java 7 (commercial implementation, unless I misread). It would be interesting to see how the openJDK is performing ? (the real question would be : is openJDK crippled compared to the Oracle - JDK ?)

thebluesky 14y ago
>the benchmark is pretty much irrelevant, because if it was we would all be coding in C or Fortran The point being debated is that the JVM is being developed and advanced more rapidly than the CLR. Performance is one way to demonstrate this. Performance does matter in many cases, and most folks aren't prepared to write their web services in Fortran. >is doing quite great against java 7 (commercial implementation, unless I misread) I would hardly classify 7x slower as "quite great" >It would be interesting to see how the openJDK is performing ? (the real question would be : is openJDK crippled compared to the Oracle - JDK ?) OpenJDK runs HotSpot, so no major difference
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- igouy 14y ago
  >>I would hardly classify 7x slower as "quite great"<< When half of that difference comes from running GC on a separate core, and we know that GC has not been tuned - perhaps we should call that particular difference accidental ;-)
  - rabbitfang 14y ago
    Single core result Java still 3x faster than C#: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=csharp&lang2=java http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=all...
    - igouy 14y ago
      Yes, and now look at the second half of my comment -- "and we know that GC has not been tuned" :-) Start off with a different initial and maximum heap size (or a different GC option!) and the results may be different.