3 ms·

"Money must go in and out to be useful and it can be traced." - not if you pay directly in Monero.

by Tiberium 2y ago

nabla9 2y ago
When people start paying their toilet paper with Monero that becomes an issue.
- jamil7 2y ago
  Are you arguing that the attacker would have to eventually exchange XMR for something they could purchase goods with, like toilet paper? Because I think that's shifting the original argument a little. The point being made is that had they had the victim(s) buy XMR on an exchange and send it directly to their XMR wallet and maybe cycle it through a few wallets, it would not have been traceable, which still holds true. How the attacker would actually use that money is a separate discussion. I've never looked into it but I'd guess there are illegal/grey services that would provide this service for a fee.
  - futuramaconarma 2y ago
    A few sites you can buy $500+ gift cards with them for low fee
  - nabla9 2y ago
    original argument: In this instance police was able to trace Modero payment trough with statistical analysis. Monero is technically safe, not necessarily in practice. >and maybe cycle it through a few wallets, Your argument: Monero + extra protocol is safe. The general pattern of these arguments: Argument: Technology X is not necessarily 100% safe. Counterargument: there exist way to use technology safely so it is.
    - nunobrito 2y ago
      Cycling through a few wallets is unnecessary, that is mostly applicable to bitcoin users trying to make their transactions harder to follow. In monero there is privacy on each transaction. Of course it isn't complicated to match public transactions if you transfer 100k EUR from binance to monero and then magically 99k EUR are credited into your personal bank account within 1~2 days. Finland is a small country, deposits from bank accounts related to crypto exchanges are easy to find. Not even monero could save a person with such awful practices.
    - jamil7 2y ago
      You may or may not be correct that Monero is not untraceable but this example doesn't prove or disprove anything because the transaction wasn't entirely in Monero. Your argument seems to be about the traceability of the whole extortion process rather than the tech, which I think everyone agrees leaves a lot of room for error.
- nunobrito 2y ago
  If the person would have made 2~3 payments to his account with different values or waited a year, binance records wouldn't look so suspicious. In fact, why the heck was that dumb guy even using binance to begin with. Anyways, you can pay toilet paper with monero quite OK. Just convert some value into a government-approved currency like bitcoin or BNB and buy stuff with a mastercard at grocery stores.
- zigararu 2y ago
  Easily possible, here for example: https://shopinbit.com/Toilet-Roll-Seda-PH-Neutro-Foxy-6-uds/23-S7908615 https://shopinbit.com/Toilet-Roll-Seda-PH-Neutro-Foxy-6-uds/...

"Money must go in and out to be useful and it can be traced." - not if you pay directly in Monero.

nabla9 2y ago

When people start paying their toilet paper with Monero that becomes an issue.

jamil7 2y ago
Are you arguing that the attacker would have to eventually exchange XMR for something they could purchase goods with, like toilet paper? Because I think that's shifting the original argument a little. The point being made is that had they had the victim(s) buy XMR on an exchange and send it directly to their XMR wallet and maybe cycle it through a few wallets, it would not have been traceable, which still holds true. How the attacker would actually use that money is a separate discussion. I've never looked into it but I'd guess there are illegal/grey services that would provide this service for a fee.
- futuramaconarma 2y ago
  A few sites you can buy $500+ gift cards with them for low fee
- nabla9 2y ago
  original argument: In this instance police was able to trace Modero payment trough with statistical analysis. Monero is technically safe, not necessarily in practice. >and maybe cycle it through a few wallets, Your argument: Monero + extra protocol is safe. The general pattern of these arguments: Argument: Technology X is not necessarily 100% safe. Counterargument: there exist way to use technology safely so it is.
  - nunobrito 2y ago
    Cycling through a few wallets is unnecessary, that is mostly applicable to bitcoin users trying to make their transactions harder to follow. In monero there is privacy on each transaction. Of course it isn't complicated to match public transactions if you transfer 100k EUR from binance to monero and then magically 99k EUR are credited into your personal bank account within 1~2 days. Finland is a small country, deposits from bank accounts related to crypto exchanges are easy to find. Not even monero could save a person with such awful practices.
  - jamil7 2y ago
    You may or may not be correct that Monero is not untraceable but this example doesn't prove or disprove anything because the transaction wasn't entirely in Monero. Your argument seems to be about the traceability of the whole extortion process rather than the tech, which I think everyone agrees leaves a lot of room for error.
nunobrito 2y ago
If the person would have made 2~3 payments to his account with different values or waited a year, binance records wouldn't look so suspicious. In fact, why the heck was that dumb guy even using binance to begin with. Anyways, you can pay toilet paper with monero quite OK. Just convert some value into a government-approved currency like bitcoin or BNB and buy stuff with a mastercard at grocery stores.
zigararu 2y ago
Easily possible, here for example: https://shopinbit.com/Toilet-Roll-Seda-PH-Neutro-Foxy-6-uds/23-S7908615 https://shopinbit.com/Toilet-Roll-Seda-PH-Neutro-Foxy-6-uds/...