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> The laptop is also prone to occasionally cooking itself in a bag and discharging the battery while "suspended". This might be a Linux problem not a Framework

> The laptop is also prone to occasionally cooking itself in a bag and discharging the battery while "suspended". This might be a Linux problem not a Framework problem: It's actually a Microsoft problem. They've crippled any kind of sleep in x86 because they want to be able to spy on you whilst the laptop is off. Any laptop after 2013 is basically unusable. The framework laptop is so bad compared to my MacBook that I basically never use it. As any time I put it in the bag the battery is dead the next day. Same with Windows and Linux. No difference. The thing just will always die after a day. I either use my MacBook or my T430 for which I can still buy replacement batteries They're the only kind of sane devices. I hope Microsoft's push to ARM will fix all of this mess and we can leave this chapter of buggy Intel and AMD "laptop" crap behind us.

Link512 2y ago
On Linux I've configured the OS to hibernate when I close the lid instead of sleeping. With today's SSD speeds, waking up from hibernation instead of sleep only adds 5-10s. Unless you're constantly opening and closing your laptop lid, that shouldn't affect your daily routine that much
- wakeupcall 2y ago
  It's a work-around at best, and not a nice one if you consider the wasted disk space. I don't understand why all vendors are actively trying to kill S3 sleep. It doesn't make any sense.
  - nine_k 2y ago
    Because Windows stopped using s3 sleep. Testing and ensuring that s3 sleep works is a cost for laptop makers, and the number of Linux users is apparently not enough to justify it.
    - mananaysiempre 2y ago
      > Testing and ensuring that s3 sleep works is a cost for laptop makers s/laptop makers/CPU vendors/ Reportedly neither Intel nor AMD are willing to support you if you’re developing firmware with S3 support for a platform using their recent CPUs (I believe that means ≥ 13th gen resp. ≥ Zen 4 but I’m not sure).
Idesmi 2y ago
I managed to enable S3 sleep on a modern laptop with AMD Ryzen 7 6800H by using Smokeless UMAF: https://github.com/DavidS95/Smokeless_UMAF/ https://github.com/DavidS95/Smokeless_UMAF/
arthur_sav 2y ago
As a kid I installed Ubuntu in the first laptop I ever owned. One day, I put it in my backpack. It probably woke up from sleep and got fried because it was unusable after that. Still holding a grudge on Linux for that one.
- solardev 2y ago
  Heh, the first time I installed Ubuntu, installation took a while so we went out to lunch. When we came back, the laptop had partially melted and burnt through the glass table underneath it... pretty scary stuff.
sofixa 2y ago
To be fair I've had the exact same issue with my M1 MacBook Pro. It has even drained its battery sitting on my desk for a weekend.
- ndiddy 2y ago
  At least Apple lets you turn it off. Go to Settings -> Battery -> Options and change "Wake for network access" from "Always" to "Only on power adapter" or "Never".
  - sofixa 2y ago
    Mine is on never, so as usual, macOS settings are useless. (like switching the scroll direction between touchpad and mouse, where you have two separate toggles which toggle each other. "Just works" my ass)
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      You likely want to turn off Power Nap, in addition to wake on network access.
    - solardev 2y ago
      For the scrolling, https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels is wonderful
      - sofixa 2y ago
        Cool, another third party random project I have to run to get macOS to not actively suck (like window management with rectangle, custom shortcuts with Karabiner).
        solardev 2y ago
        Yeah, it's pretty annoying at first, coming from Windows and most desktop Linuxes where those things are out-of-the-box. Then you still have to shim in a package manager (brew etc.), git (xcode CLI just for an old version? sigh), etc. It's even worse trying to get a gaming setup going, between dealing with mouse scrolling and acceleration differences, Rosetta and GPT (game porting toolkit, not the AI stuff), etc. At the end of the day, I don't think us dev types and power users are the core audience for Apple =/ We're just a niche. But at least once you have it all set up, it mostly keeps working after that. I just hope they don't lock down macOS like iOS and iPadOS altogether. Presumably they'd always need a machine like that if only to develop for iOS and iPadOS and such... fingers crossed. It's definitely an "enjoy it while it lasts" mindset for me though, like everything in tech.
consp 2y ago
> > The laptop is also prone to occasionally cooking itself in a bag and discharging the battery while "suspended". I've had this problem and updating the linux firmware packages to the kernel repo ones of all components fixed it 99.9% of the cases. It's an AMD though so ymmv. Still want S3 sleep instead of fake-S3 aka S2-idle aka spy-sleep.
ffsm8 2y ago
Why would it be resolved by Microsofts Push to ARM if it's caused by Microsofts desire to spy on the user? Also, the issue generally goes away as long as you detach the power connection before you're closing the lid, because the issue isn't actually caused by Microsoft. They do want to spy on the users though, this just isn't an issue related to that.
- SR2Z 2y ago
  ARM chips are generally better at conserving power than x86, simply because they have less instruction decode HW.
croutonwagon 2y ago
Completely agree. Google modern standby or hybrid sleep. Its terrible. I just full hibernate or shutdown when going into a bag. This is as true for my work thinkpad, as it is for my personal razer as it is for our more family/general use framework 13 that is de facto my wifes computer.
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 2y ago
Not sure if I'm missing something, but the term "sleep" has never meant "power down" in Windows. It's just a lower power state that keeps all your applications running. AFAIK you can still enable hibernation (which does actually power down the machine) in the control panel.
TiredOfLife 2y ago
> because they want to be able to spy on you whilst the laptop is off. Source?

Link512 2y ago

On Linux I've configured the OS to hibernate when I close the lid instead of sleeping. With today's SSD speeds, waking up from hibernation instead of sleep only adds 5-10s. Unless you're constantly opening and closing your laptop lid, that shouldn't affect your daily routine that much

wakeupcall 2y ago
It's a work-around at best, and not a nice one if you consider the wasted disk space. I don't understand why all vendors are actively trying to kill S3 sleep. It doesn't make any sense.
- nine_k 2y ago
  Because Windows stopped using s3 sleep. Testing and ensuring that s3 sleep works is a cost for laptop makers, and the number of Linux users is apparently not enough to justify it.
  - mananaysiempre 2y ago
    > Testing and ensuring that s3 sleep works is a cost for laptop makers s/laptop makers/CPU vendors/ Reportedly neither Intel nor AMD are willing to support you if you’re developing firmware with S3 support for a platform using their recent CPUs (I believe that means ≥ 13th gen resp. ≥ Zen 4 but I’m not sure).

Idesmi 2y ago

I managed to enable S3 sleep on a modern laptop with AMD Ryzen 7 6800H by using Smokeless UMAF: https://github.com/DavidS95/Smokeless_UMAF/ https://github.com/DavidS95/Smokeless_UMAF/

arthur_sav 2y ago

As a kid I installed Ubuntu in the first laptop I ever owned. One day, I put it in my backpack. It probably woke up from sleep and got fried because it was unusable after that. Still holding a grudge on Linux for that one.

solardev 2y ago
Heh, the first time I installed Ubuntu, installation took a while so we went out to lunch. When we came back, the laptop had partially melted and burnt through the glass table underneath it... pretty scary stuff.

sofixa 2y ago

To be fair I've had the exact same issue with my M1 MacBook Pro. It has even drained its battery sitting on my desk for a weekend.

ndiddy 2y ago
At least Apple lets you turn it off. Go to Settings -> Battery -> Options and change "Wake for network access" from "Always" to "Only on power adapter" or "Never".
- sofixa 2y ago
  Mine is on never, so as usual, macOS settings are useless. (like switching the scroll direction between touchpad and mouse, where you have two separate toggles which toggle each other. "Just works" my ass)
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    You likely want to turn off Power Nap, in addition to wake on network access.
  - solardev 2y ago
    For the scrolling, https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels https://github.com/ther0n/UnnaturalScrollWheels is wonderful
    - sofixa 2y ago
      Cool, another third party random project I have to run to get macOS to not actively suck (like window management with rectangle, custom shortcuts with Karabiner).
      - solardev 2y ago
        Yeah, it's pretty annoying at first, coming from Windows and most desktop Linuxes where those things are out-of-the-box. Then you still have to shim in a package manager (brew etc.), git (xcode CLI just for an old version? sigh), etc. It's even worse trying to get a gaming setup going, between dealing with mouse scrolling and acceleration differences, Rosetta and GPT (game porting toolkit, not the AI stuff), etc. At the end of the day, I don't think us dev types and power users are the core audience for Apple =/ We're just a niche. But at least once you have it all set up, it mostly keeps working after that. I just hope they don't lock down macOS like iOS and iPadOS altogether. Presumably they'd always need a machine like that if only to develop for iOS and iPadOS and such... fingers crossed. It's definitely an "enjoy it while it lasts" mindset for me though, like everything in tech.

consp 2y ago

> > The laptop is also prone to occasionally cooking itself in a bag and discharging the battery while "suspended". I've had this problem and updating the linux firmware packages to the kernel repo ones of all components fixed it 99.9% of the cases. It's an AMD though so ymmv. Still want S3 sleep instead of fake-S3 aka S2-idle aka spy-sleep.

ffsm8 2y ago

Why would it be resolved by Microsofts Push to ARM if it's caused by Microsofts desire to spy on the user? Also, the issue generally goes away as long as you detach the power connection before you're closing the lid, because the issue isn't actually caused by Microsoft. They do want to spy on the users though, this just isn't an issue related to that.

SR2Z 2y ago
ARM chips are generally better at conserving power than x86, simply because they have less instruction decode HW.

croutonwagon 2y ago

Completely agree. Google modern standby or hybrid sleep. Its terrible. I just full hibernate or shutdown when going into a bag. This is as true for my work thinkpad, as it is for my personal razer as it is for our more family/general use framework 13 that is de facto my wifes computer.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 2y ago

Not sure if I'm missing something, but the term "sleep" has never meant "power down" in Windows. It's just a lower power state that keeps all your applications running. AFAIK you can still enable hibernation (which does actually power down the machine) in the control panel.

TiredOfLife 2y ago

> because they want to be able to spy on you whilst the laptop is off. Source?