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Last year I crunched my Framework laptop - basically bent the screen and the top shell badly enough that the screen was dead. Luckily I was able to purchase a

Last year I crunched my Framework laptop - basically bent the screen and the top shell badly enough that the screen was dead. Luckily I was able to purchase a new top shell and screen for ~$150 and replace it myself! I also popped in another stick of RAM while I had it open. I am not sure that level of diy servicability is even possible with any other laptop!

tourmalinetaco 2y ago
Depending on the model, Thinkpads come in fairly close to Frameworks. https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/laptop-repairability-scores https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/laptop-repairability-sc...
- someothherguyy 2y ago
  L14 Gen 2: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-l-series-laptops/thinkpad-l14-type-20u1-20u2/solutions/ht510453-removal-and-replacement-videos-thinkpad-l14-20u1-20u2-thinkpad-l14-amd-20u5-20u6 https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netb... No official videos for newest models, but not as easy as a framework, IMO.
  - creshal 2y ago
    Lenovo produce extensive manuals for every Thinkpad, and they're designed to be fully field-serviceable, since that's what they're selling with their on-site warranties. The laptops aren't optimized for it the way they were in IBM days, but it can be done.
    - someothherguyy 2y ago
      Said manual, https://www.ifixit.com/Document/eB5AOj2tsb6KBXD2/l14_gen5_l16_gen1_hmm_en.pdf?referrer=wiki%3A564377 https://www.ifixit.com/Document/eB5AOj2tsb6KBXD2/l14_gen5_l1... Same procedure as Gen 2 by the looks of it (pg 108), not sure how it has a 9 for an iFixit score, unless you discount replacing the panel itself, or consider replacing panels adhered with adhesive tape as an easy repair. I personally do not. Having replaced many cell phone digitizers and screens in my day, I see it as messy and prone to error. Maybe the score is relative?
- panick21_ 2y ago
  I just broke my screen and replacement screen will take 24 weeks.
  - solardev 2y ago
    I used to always pay for in-home service with my ThinkPads. The hinge broke on one of them, a guy came out the next day and replaced it on my dining table. Not sure if that repair channel has a separate parts stream, but when there isn't a shortage, it's an amazing service. Only adds a few hundred bucks and was totally worth it the several times I've had to use it. The ThinkPads I had never had very good build quality and their non US based support isn't great. With the at home service, you deal with a real person who comes to your house or business. Then I eventually switched to Apple and never had to get anything fixed again...
    - panick21_ 2y ago
      A agree, you can get a service person to show up and fix it. I had this done before, its pretty nice. Its also expensive outside of warranty. You can have that and self-service.
minkles 2y ago
I did that with my previous MBP (2015 15" retina). The lid cost a lot more but was quite easy to replace. Also I've replaced many many bits on thinkpads before for myself and other people.
- someothherguyy 2y ago
  MBP Display https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5rYqscZRpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5rYqscZRpk Framework Display https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Display+Replacement+Guide/86 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Display+Replacement+Guide/86 (If you needed to replace the top cover as well: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Top+Cover+Replacement+Guide/118 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Top+Cover+Replacement+Guide/...) Also, no options to swap the RAM in a MBP after 2012.
  - minkles 2y ago
    Well you still can upgrade the RAM on an Intel Macbook (not sure about M1+) and the SSD on all of them. It does require a hot air station and some skills though. Having done that stuff for years it doesn't bother me but it's an obvious barrier to anyone who hasn't done anything like it. Not that I've had to upgrade a machine for about 10 years and never had one fail on me.
    - someothherguyy 2y ago
      * no easy options
xvector 2y ago
Do you think it was a durability issue or would this have happened to any laptop?
- roland35 2y ago
  Oh definitely my fault. I stepped on it!
ekianjo 2y ago
you can do the same thing on pretty much any thinkpad
- Refusing23 2y ago
  replacing the motherboard, with new cpu etc ? while still fitting within the frame and so on
  - ekianjo 2y ago
    I was referring to the problem pointed out by the original post. that is doable with a thinkpad. as for replacing motherboards and CPU, it is still possible on Thinkpads. the older T440p let you change CPU in its socket. Other more limited thinkpads let you replace the motherboard with a new one fairly easily (identical model). as for replacing your mobo by a more recent one, I think only the Framework allows that for now.
marcus_holmes 2y ago
Purism. I got shipped a dud screen and they told me to open it up and check all the cables, etc. Then the battery died and I had to replace the motherboard - they shipped me a replacement (for not much) and I did the replacement myself. Kinds fun and very simple. All the screws and fasteners are standard and obvious.
- solardev 2y ago
  You got a broken screen when you bought the thing and they made you do the repairs yourself? And then charged you to replace a broken battery..? Why would anyone do business with them?
  - SR2Z 2y ago
    Because it's possible for a user to service the machine. If you get a MacBook or other laptop you CANNOT easily change anything.
    - solardev 2y ago
      Repairability is nice, but when so many parts are broken so soon after purchase (at least from my reading of the GP), the company should be replacing the whole laptop, not charging the customer and shipping one replacement piece at a time. It makes me worry about their quality control process and customer service.
      - marcus_holmes 2y ago
        They did ship a replacement laptop for the screen fix. I was in rural Australia at the time, I would have massively preferred to be able to fix it myself instead of waiting almost 3 months for a replacement. Unfortunately, while I could do the diagnostic check myself, there was no way of fixing it myself. When the battery died I was in Berlin. It was out of warranty at that point. Paying a couple hundred euros for a replacement motherboard was by far the cheapest and best option. My first Macbook also had a screen die on it (they just handed me a replacement as it was still in warranty), so from my perspective we're 1:1 on QC for Apple and Purism.
noobermin 2y ago
I bought my Framework laptop and promptly moved to a country with a lesser species of human, if we were to use framework's logic, I assume. I mean, it wasn't until like last year they opened up deliveries to Taiwan, you know, the country where the thing is manufactured. Of course, europe, the US, you know, the countries with real people™, has had access to their marketplace since day one. So, I've spent three years with a dying battery and bashed case, a warped screen shell, but I have no recourse. Honestly, it would have been better to buy an actual open source laptop that allows generic replacements, not one from their own store that, let's be real, will go kaput one day when the founder gets bored. The whole "diy serviceability" doesn't really square when you can't get your own parts.
- Hackbraten 2y ago
  > and promptly moved to a country with a lesser species of human, if we were to use framework's logic, I assume I feel you. I’ve been in your shoes, and I used to hold a similar grudge. But what I’ve realized lately is that selling products to foreign countries is a massively complex mess of tasks due to local laws and policies, which can be ridiculously counterintuitive. Vendors need time and money to learn all the pitfalls for each individual country and to figure out how to manage the remaining risk properly. If Framework knew how to ship you a product without risking violating local regulations left and right, they would likely be happy to do so.
  - mananaysiempre 2y ago
    The ultimate conclusion is still that, if you need to remain in non-approved countries for prolonged amounts of time, a Framework will be more difficult and expensive to repair for you than a laptop from one of the mainstream vendors, not less. Moreover, Framework will actively work to ensure you can’t repair it by banning dropshippers. So that needs to be part of the calculation.
- heraldgeezer 2y ago
  You think it's easy selling something all over the world? They sell where the most market is.

tourmalinetaco 2y ago

Depending on the model, Thinkpads come in fairly close to Frameworks. https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/laptop-repairability-scores https://www.ifixit.com/repairability/laptop-repairability-sc...

someothherguyy 2y ago
L14 Gen 2: https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-l-series-laptops/thinkpad-l14-type-20u1-20u2/solutions/ht510453-removal-and-replacement-videos-thinkpad-l14-20u1-20u2-thinkpad-l14-amd-20u5-20u6 https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netb... No official videos for newest models, but not as easy as a framework, IMO.
- creshal 2y ago
  Lenovo produce extensive manuals for every Thinkpad, and they're designed to be fully field-serviceable, since that's what they're selling with their on-site warranties. The laptops aren't optimized for it the way they were in IBM days, but it can be done.
  - someothherguyy 2y ago
    Said manual, https://www.ifixit.com/Document/eB5AOj2tsb6KBXD2/l14_gen5_l16_gen1_hmm_en.pdf?referrer=wiki%3A564377 https://www.ifixit.com/Document/eB5AOj2tsb6KBXD2/l14_gen5_l1... Same procedure as Gen 2 by the looks of it (pg 108), not sure how it has a 9 for an iFixit score, unless you discount replacing the panel itself, or consider replacing panels adhered with adhesive tape as an easy repair. I personally do not. Having replaced many cell phone digitizers and screens in my day, I see it as messy and prone to error. Maybe the score is relative?
panick21_ 2y ago
I just broke my screen and replacement screen will take 24 weeks.
- solardev 2y ago
  I used to always pay for in-home service with my ThinkPads. The hinge broke on one of them, a guy came out the next day and replaced it on my dining table. Not sure if that repair channel has a separate parts stream, but when there isn't a shortage, it's an amazing service. Only adds a few hundred bucks and was totally worth it the several times I've had to use it. The ThinkPads I had never had very good build quality and their non US based support isn't great. With the at home service, you deal with a real person who comes to your house or business. Then I eventually switched to Apple and never had to get anything fixed again...
  - panick21_ 2y ago
    A agree, you can get a service person to show up and fix it. I had this done before, its pretty nice. Its also expensive outside of warranty. You can have that and self-service.

minkles 2y ago

I did that with my previous MBP (2015 15" retina). The lid cost a lot more but was quite easy to replace. Also I've replaced many many bits on thinkpads before for myself and other people.

someothherguyy 2y ago
MBP Display https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5rYqscZRpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5rYqscZRpk Framework Display https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Display+Replacement+Guide/86 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Display+Replacement+Guide/86 (If you needed to replace the top cover as well: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Top+Cover+Replacement+Guide/118 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Top+Cover+Replacement+Guide/...) Also, no options to swap the RAM in a MBP after 2012.
- minkles 2y ago
  Well you still can upgrade the RAM on an Intel Macbook (not sure about M1+) and the SSD on all of them. It does require a hot air station and some skills though. Having done that stuff for years it doesn't bother me but it's an obvious barrier to anyone who hasn't done anything like it. Not that I've had to upgrade a machine for about 10 years and never had one fail on me.
  - someothherguyy 2y ago
    * no easy options

xvector 2y ago

Do you think it was a durability issue or would this have happened to any laptop?

roland35 2y ago
Oh definitely my fault. I stepped on it!

ekianjo 2y ago

you can do the same thing on pretty much any thinkpad

Refusing23 2y ago
replacing the motherboard, with new cpu etc ? while still fitting within the frame and so on
- ekianjo 2y ago
  I was referring to the problem pointed out by the original post. that is doable with a thinkpad. as for replacing motherboards and CPU, it is still possible on Thinkpads. the older T440p let you change CPU in its socket. Other more limited thinkpads let you replace the motherboard with a new one fairly easily (identical model). as for replacing your mobo by a more recent one, I think only the Framework allows that for now.

marcus_holmes 2y ago

Purism. I got shipped a dud screen and they told me to open it up and check all the cables, etc. Then the battery died and I had to replace the motherboard - they shipped me a replacement (for not much) and I did the replacement myself. Kinds fun and very simple. All the screws and fasteners are standard and obvious.

solardev 2y ago
You got a broken screen when you bought the thing and they made you do the repairs yourself? And then charged you to replace a broken battery..? Why would anyone do business with them?
- SR2Z 2y ago
  Because it's possible for a user to service the machine. If you get a MacBook or other laptop you CANNOT easily change anything.
  - solardev 2y ago
    Repairability is nice, but when so many parts are broken so soon after purchase (at least from my reading of the GP), the company should be replacing the whole laptop, not charging the customer and shipping one replacement piece at a time. It makes me worry about their quality control process and customer service.
    - marcus_holmes 2y ago
      They did ship a replacement laptop for the screen fix. I was in rural Australia at the time, I would have massively preferred to be able to fix it myself instead of waiting almost 3 months for a replacement. Unfortunately, while I could do the diagnostic check myself, there was no way of fixing it myself. When the battery died I was in Berlin. It was out of warranty at that point. Paying a couple hundred euros for a replacement motherboard was by far the cheapest and best option. My first Macbook also had a screen die on it (they just handed me a replacement as it was still in warranty), so from my perspective we're 1:1 on QC for Apple and Purism.

noobermin 2y ago

I bought my Framework laptop and promptly moved to a country with a lesser species of human, if we were to use framework's logic, I assume. I mean, it wasn't until like last year they opened up deliveries to Taiwan, you know, the country where the thing is manufactured. Of course, europe, the US, you know, the countries with real people™, has had access to their marketplace since day one. So, I've spent three years with a dying battery and bashed case, a warped screen shell, but I have no recourse. Honestly, it would have been better to buy an actual open source laptop that allows generic replacements, not one from their own store that, let's be real, will go kaput one day when the founder gets bored. The whole "diy serviceability" doesn't really square when you can't get your own parts.

Hackbraten 2y ago
> and promptly moved to a country with a lesser species of human, if we were to use framework's logic, I assume I feel you. I’ve been in your shoes, and I used to hold a similar grudge. But what I’ve realized lately is that selling products to foreign countries is a massively complex mess of tasks due to local laws and policies, which can be ridiculously counterintuitive. Vendors need time and money to learn all the pitfalls for each individual country and to figure out how to manage the remaining risk properly. If Framework knew how to ship you a product without risking violating local regulations left and right, they would likely be happy to do so.
- mananaysiempre 2y ago
  The ultimate conclusion is still that, if you need to remain in non-approved countries for prolonged amounts of time, a Framework will be more difficult and expensive to repair for you than a laptop from one of the mainstream vendors, not less. Moreover, Framework will actively work to ensure you can’t repair it by banning dropshippers. So that needs to be part of the calculation.
heraldgeezer 2y ago
You think it's easy selling something all over the world? They sell where the most market is.