7 ms·

Fusion or ubiquitous Linux desktops (wsl does not count), which happens first?

tkubacki 2y ago
Poland wins World Cup in football goes first in the impossible events department.
ThrowawayR2 2y ago
WSL does count. The average Linux user doesn't know squat about how the kernel, drivers, or services work; they just like the CLI. If MS can give them enough of the Linux CLI and functioning packages to do their job, it's game over.
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  Looks like the upward trend shows that it is not in fact “game over”. Steam making sure than the vast majority of games run fine on Linux at the first try is much more impactful than WSL in the grand scheme of things.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - littlestymaar 2y ago
      > As long as it keeps translating Windows, For people to be able to play games on your platform, there must be games running on it, and the reality is that people won't bother developing commercial games targeting explicitly Linux, at least not if Linux is at 2% market share. Being able to run the games which already exist is a massive adoption boost. > and doesn't lose to the handhelds running Windows proper. It's not just about handhelds, I don't have a Steam Deck yet I can use pretty much all games I want on my Linux Desktop thanks to Valve's work. > Lost opportunity to actually make Linux gaming take off. No, unless you restrict “Linux gaming” to games that are natively developed for Linux, which is pretty much arbitrary. Should Linux reach double digit market share, then maybe it will become commercially viable to do so, but the reality is that before Valve did their magic, playing on Linux was hit or miss and every gamer around me had a Windows dual boot. It's not the case anymore, and that's really weird to see it as a “lost opportunity” (but I know some people really love to be contrarians on HN).
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        Of course I am restricting it to native Linux games, the others are Windows games, developed and sold for Windows customers, that happen to be running on Linux thanks to Proton. One could be running a VM of some sort for exactly the same purpose. To the point that studios with Android NDK versions don't even bother to have them on GNU/Linux.
        littlestymaar 2y ago
        > Of course I am restricting it to native Linux games, And of course that's completely arbitrary. > the others are Windows games, developed and sold for Windows customers, that happen to be running on Linux thanks to Proton. And so what? > One could be running a VM of some sort for exactly the same purpose. Except it keeps you monitored by Microsoft abusive telemetry, need much more RAM than what you'd normally need, and requires a Windows license. Dual-booting was the convenient way of doing this before proton came out, not VM. And proton made dual boot obsolete, which is a very good deal given that Microsoft regularly messes with it… > To the point that studios with Android NDK versions don't even bother to have them on GNU/Linux. Games developed for Android are made for touchscreens, so it's not like porting is easy. And again, nobody is ever going to develop games for a platform that barely even exists as a gaming platform. Valve makes the platform exists at all, which is a big deal. But until market share hasn't reached something like 20% at least, nobody will bother developing games for it. MacOS still isn't a serious gaming platform despite its huge market share compared to Linux, it's ridiculous to expect Linux to ever become one with native Linux games.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        > And of course that's completely arbitrary. Not at all, in the context of gaming on Platform X, the games made for Platform X matter, it is irrelevant how many games from Platform Y, Platform W, Platform Whatever, Platform X can emulatate/translate, those games were not designed, or developed with Platform X in mind to start with. > Games developed for Android are made for touchscreens, so it's not like porting is easy. Many also support gamepads, something that after 30 years should work mostly on GNU/Linux, assuming one gets the right brands to start with. > MacOS still isn't a serious gaming platform despite its huge market share compared to Linux, it's ridiculous to expect Linux to ever become one with native Linux games. What Apple cares about is iDevices gaming, there is enough money to be done there, at the same level as Playstation/XBox/Switch.
- sergiotapia 2y ago
  Can confirm. I've been working with a VMWare Linux Mint machine for two years, and very recently installed Windows 11, and decided to try WSL2. It's seamless, and literally Linux. I installed asdf and all the stuff I would normally do with zero headaches. No more vms for me.
  - bydo 2y ago
    WSL2 is literally a VM.
    - moondev 2y ago
      And WSL1?
      - AndrewDucker 2y ago
        A translation layer. It emulates Linux system calls.
    - sergiotapia 2y ago
      yes but it's not a "VMWare" window and completely separate desktop environment. come on.

Poland wins World Cup in football goes first in the impossible events department.

WSL does count. The average Linux user doesn't know squat about how the kernel, drivers, or services work; they just like the CLI. If MS can give them enough of the Linux CLI and functioning packages to do their job, it's game over.

littlestymaar 2y ago
Looks like the upward trend shows that it is not in fact “game over”. Steam making sure than the vast majority of games run fine on Linux at the first try is much more impactful than WSL in the grand scheme of things.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    > As long as it keeps translating Windows, For people to be able to play games on your platform, there must be games running on it, and the reality is that people won't bother developing commercial games targeting explicitly Linux, at least not if Linux is at 2% market share. Being able to run the games which already exist is a massive adoption boost. > and doesn't lose to the handhelds running Windows proper. It's not just about handhelds, I don't have a Steam Deck yet I can use pretty much all games I want on my Linux Desktop thanks to Valve's work. > Lost opportunity to actually make Linux gaming take off. No, unless you restrict “Linux gaming” to games that are natively developed for Linux, which is pretty much arbitrary. Should Linux reach double digit market share, then maybe it will become commercially viable to do so, but the reality is that before Valve did their magic, playing on Linux was hit or miss and every gamer around me had a Windows dual boot. It's not the case anymore, and that's really weird to see it as a “lost opportunity” (but I know some people really love to be contrarians on HN).
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      Of course I am restricting it to native Linux games, the others are Windows games, developed and sold for Windows customers, that happen to be running on Linux thanks to Proton. One could be running a VM of some sort for exactly the same purpose. To the point that studios with Android NDK versions don't even bother to have them on GNU/Linux.
      - littlestymaar 2y ago
        > Of course I am restricting it to native Linux games, And of course that's completely arbitrary. > the others are Windows games, developed and sold for Windows customers, that happen to be running on Linux thanks to Proton. And so what? > One could be running a VM of some sort for exactly the same purpose. Except it keeps you monitored by Microsoft abusive telemetry, need much more RAM than what you'd normally need, and requires a Windows license. Dual-booting was the convenient way of doing this before proton came out, not VM. And proton made dual boot obsolete, which is a very good deal given that Microsoft regularly messes with it… > To the point that studios with Android NDK versions don't even bother to have them on GNU/Linux. Games developed for Android are made for touchscreens, so it's not like porting is easy. And again, nobody is ever going to develop games for a platform that barely even exists as a gaming platform. Valve makes the platform exists at all, which is a big deal. But until market share hasn't reached something like 20% at least, nobody will bother developing games for it. MacOS still isn't a serious gaming platform despite its huge market share compared to Linux, it's ridiculous to expect Linux to ever become one with native Linux games.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        > And of course that's completely arbitrary. Not at all, in the context of gaming on Platform X, the games made for Platform X matter, it is irrelevant how many games from Platform Y, Platform W, Platform Whatever, Platform X can emulatate/translate, those games were not designed, or developed with Platform X in mind to start with. > Games developed for Android are made for touchscreens, so it's not like porting is easy. Many also support gamepads, something that after 30 years should work mostly on GNU/Linux, assuming one gets the right brands to start with. > MacOS still isn't a serious gaming platform despite its huge market share compared to Linux, it's ridiculous to expect Linux to ever become one with native Linux games. What Apple cares about is iDevices gaming, there is enough money to be done there, at the same level as Playstation/XBox/Switch.
sergiotapia 2y ago
Can confirm. I've been working with a VMWare Linux Mint machine for two years, and very recently installed Windows 11, and decided to try WSL2. It's seamless, and literally Linux. I installed asdf and all the stuff I would normally do with zero headaches. No more vms for me.
- bydo 2y ago
  WSL2 is literally a VM.
  - moondev 2y ago
    And WSL1?
    - AndrewDucker 2y ago
      A translation layer. It emulates Linux system calls.
  - sergiotapia 2y ago
    yes but it's not a "VMWare" window and completely separate desktop environment. come on.