3 ms·

At some point in the depreciation curve of the iPhone, it will not make sense for certain types of users (students?) to pay $120 for Apple to replace the batter

At some point in the depreciation curve of the iPhone, it will not make sense for certain types of users (students?) to pay $120 for Apple to replace the battery, since $30 battery is not available, and instead would make more sense to buy a newer used iPhone. The price sensitive user themselves would not drop $1k on a new phone, but someone else in the upgrade treadmill will.

brailsafe 2y ago
I really doubt any significant number of people would be buying $1k phones repeatedly if the cost wasn't amortized like they are. People don't feel like they're preserving a luxury item that costs that much, they feel like they're preserving something for the price of $120 that costs 1000/24 or whatever. When I go and actually spend $600 straight up for my non-iPhone (more than I'd prefer for the value it offers me) it hurts, and I'm going to do what I can within reason to keep it running.
tpmoney 2y ago
Sure, at a certain point in every product's lifespan there's a certain point where it doesn't make sense for certain buyers of used products to pay higher prices for replacement parts if lower prices were available. But the claim made was: "the products are destined to become e-waste faster than necessary due to inevitable battery degradation and intentionally difficult battery replacement." So in order for iPhones to "become e-waste faster than necessary" and also for Apple to be doing this "[because] they want to sell entire $1000+ phone/$3000+ laptop upgrades, not replacement batteries", is the assertion that the market for users who would buy a used iPhone, for which it is not economical for them to spend $90 more on a battery replacement are generating enough extra disposal of used iPhones that Apple has intentionally chosen this design in order to maximize the sale of new phones to people that are selling their phones to this contingent of buyers? Is there even any evidence to suggest that the number of used iPhones that would otherwise be sold to someone for whom a $30 battery replacement is economical, but not a $120 replacement is significantly routed instead to the trash instead of being sold to other users who are not as price sensitive? Even just a study of the average used market lifespan of iPhones compared to other cell phones might be instructive here.
- wolpoli 2y ago
  The charge definitely has an impact on the market lifespan of the phone. It makes an older phone less attractive. Let's do a thought experiment: The cost of an iPhone 16 is $800 brand new in 2024. The year is now 2028 and someone is giving a student the phone for free (and they need a phone), but warn that the battery is glitchy and worn out. Let's say there is no third party replacement. At what price will the student accept the phone and replace the battery? At what price would the student just get a brand new iPhone 20 at $800? Assume the following replacement charges: $700/$480/$240/$120.
  - tpmoney 2y ago
    Yes, the price is relevant compared to the price of a new phone. And for what it's worth, the $120 price point only applies to the pro models, so your entry price is $900. But that aside, again I ask who are these people that are forgoing a $120 battery for a phone (one they'd be perfectly happy with if they could get a $30 replacement battery) in favor of a new $800 phone instead? Yes in a hypothetical world where Apple charges $700 for a new battery, and a brand new iPhone can be had for $800, it's reasonable to think a good chunk of phones with degraded batteries would be discarded in favor of new phones. Likewise if we imagined a hypothetical world where iPhones randomly explode, killing the owner but only after it has been sold second hand, we'd also see a decline in the lifespan of used iPhones. But we don't live in such a world, and the batter replacement cost is not $700, or $480, or $240. It's $120 for two models and $99 for most others. And this $120 battery replacement world is the world the original commenter suggests that iPhones are becoming e-waste at a rate much more rapidly than they otherwise would if only they had $30 amazon replacements and sliding battery doors. It's the world where the original commenter implies that the only (or at least a significant) reason Apple designs the iPhone batteries the way they do is to drive sales of $1k+ phones. So in this world, who are the people rejecting $120 battery replacements for $1k+ phones?

brailsafe 2y ago

I really doubt any significant number of people would be buying $1k phones repeatedly if the cost wasn't amortized like they are. People don't feel like they're preserving a luxury item that costs that much, they feel like they're preserving something for the price of $120 that costs 1000/24 or whatever. When I go and actually spend $600 straight up for my non-iPhone (more than I'd prefer for the value it offers me) it hurts, and I'm going to do what I can within reason to keep it running.

tpmoney 2y ago

Sure, at a certain point in every product's lifespan there's a certain point where it doesn't make sense for certain buyers of used products to pay higher prices for replacement parts if lower prices were available. But the claim made was: "the products are destined to become e-waste faster than necessary due to inevitable battery degradation and intentionally difficult battery replacement." So in order for iPhones to "become e-waste faster than necessary" and also for Apple to be doing this "[because] they want to sell entire $1000+ phone/$3000+ laptop upgrades, not replacement batteries", is the assertion that the market for users who would buy a used iPhone, for which it is not economical for them to spend $90 more on a battery replacement are generating enough extra disposal of used iPhones that Apple has intentionally chosen this design in order to maximize the sale of new phones to people that are selling their phones to this contingent of buyers? Is there even any evidence to suggest that the number of used iPhones that would otherwise be sold to someone for whom a $30 battery replacement is economical, but not a $120 replacement is significantly routed instead to the trash instead of being sold to other users who are not as price sensitive? Even just a study of the average used market lifespan of iPhones compared to other cell phones might be instructive here.

wolpoli 2y ago
The charge definitely has an impact on the market lifespan of the phone. It makes an older phone less attractive. Let's do a thought experiment: The cost of an iPhone 16 is $800 brand new in 2024. The year is now 2028 and someone is giving a student the phone for free (and they need a phone), but warn that the battery is glitchy and worn out. Let's say there is no third party replacement. At what price will the student accept the phone and replace the battery? At what price would the student just get a brand new iPhone 20 at $800? Assume the following replacement charges: $700/$480/$240/$120.
- tpmoney 2y ago
  Yes, the price is relevant compared to the price of a new phone. And for what it's worth, the $120 price point only applies to the pro models, so your entry price is $900. But that aside, again I ask who are these people that are forgoing a $120 battery for a phone (one they'd be perfectly happy with if they could get a $30 replacement battery) in favor of a new $800 phone instead? Yes in a hypothetical world where Apple charges $700 for a new battery, and a brand new iPhone can be had for $800, it's reasonable to think a good chunk of phones with degraded batteries would be discarded in favor of new phones. Likewise if we imagined a hypothetical world where iPhones randomly explode, killing the owner but only after it has been sold second hand, we'd also see a decline in the lifespan of used iPhones. But we don't live in such a world, and the batter replacement cost is not $700, or $480, or $240. It's $120 for two models and $99 for most others. And this $120 battery replacement world is the world the original commenter suggests that iPhones are becoming e-waste at a rate much more rapidly than they otherwise would if only they had $30 amazon replacements and sliding battery doors. It's the world where the original commenter implies that the only (or at least a significant) reason Apple designs the iPhone batteries the way they do is to drive sales of $1k+ phones. So in this world, who are the people rejecting $120 battery replacements for $1k+ phones?