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We still need to force people to pay into retirement funds, but we can do so in a way that ensures people get what they put in and then some, rather than receiv

We still need to force people to pay into retirement funds, but we can do so in a way that ensures people get what they put in and then some, rather than receiving scraps from the government. Ideally, rather than pay income tax, it’s put into a pre-tax retirement account under your control akin to a 401k, and invested into passive long term investments. Once the person withdraws the money, then sure the government can take a cut, but the federal government taking 25% of my income just for existing, with no benefit to me? Fuck that.

pelasaco 2y ago
> We still need to force people to pay into retirement funds Who exactly is 'we'? Your idea doesn't hold up. Many countries have tried similar systems, but they often end up with poor interest rates. In the end, it's just a cheaper way for the government to borrow money. Your money would be much better if allocated in some ETF or even pure bonds...
- tourmalinetaco 2y ago
  Please actually read what was said, your reply is incoherent. Where will the money for those ETFs or pure bonds come from? The reality is most people will and do spend their money living pay-to-pay, regardless of income bracket. They have no concept of savings or investments. So it is in the best interests of we, the people, to collectively put a little of everyone’s income into retirement accounts to lessen the burden on social services and improve their living conditions, which is fucking obvious. Not to mention you couldn’t actually read the very blatant statement I made about the government NOT controlling the account, and thus not becoming a piggy bank for elites. Finally, what countries specifically don’t take income tax, but instead take a cut of income and put it into a non-government backed retirement account associated specifically to that person?
  - pelasaco 2y ago
    I don’t think we need to force people to pay into retirement funds, especially if we all agree that they’re not effective. What I mean by an ETF is that, instead of the government taking 8% of my income, I actively save that 8% in an ETF (or even bonds). After 25 years or so, those who invest in ETFs will likely see better compound returns compared to those contributing to state-run pension funds. As for your question about countries that don’t take income tax but rather allocate a portion of income to a personal, non-government-backed retirement account—take a look at Brazil's Fundo de Garantia do Tempo de Serviço (FGTS) as an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundo_de_Garantia_do_Tempo_de_Servi%C3%A7o https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundo_de_Garantia_do_Tempo_de_.... > what countries specifically don’t take income tax, but instead take a cut of income and put it into a non-government backed retirement account associated specifically to that person Government will never "avoid taking income tax", but instead they will take your income tax and force the employer to finance the employee's retirement account.

pelasaco 2y ago

> We still need to force people to pay into retirement funds Who exactly is 'we'? Your idea doesn't hold up. Many countries have tried similar systems, but they often end up with poor interest rates. In the end, it's just a cheaper way for the government to borrow money. Your money would be much better if allocated in some ETF or even pure bonds...

tourmalinetaco 2y ago
Please actually read what was said, your reply is incoherent. Where will the money for those ETFs or pure bonds come from? The reality is most people will and do spend their money living pay-to-pay, regardless of income bracket. They have no concept of savings or investments. So it is in the best interests of we, the people, to collectively put a little of everyone’s income into retirement accounts to lessen the burden on social services and improve their living conditions, which is fucking obvious. Not to mention you couldn’t actually read the very blatant statement I made about the government NOT controlling the account, and thus not becoming a piggy bank for elites. Finally, what countries specifically don’t take income tax, but instead take a cut of income and put it into a non-government backed retirement account associated specifically to that person?
- pelasaco 2y ago
  I don’t think we need to force people to pay into retirement funds, especially if we all agree that they’re not effective. What I mean by an ETF is that, instead of the government taking 8% of my income, I actively save that 8% in an ETF (or even bonds). After 25 years or so, those who invest in ETFs will likely see better compound returns compared to those contributing to state-run pension funds. As for your question about countries that don’t take income tax but rather allocate a portion of income to a personal, non-government-backed retirement account—take a look at Brazil's Fundo de Garantia do Tempo de Serviço (FGTS) as an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundo_de_Garantia_do_Tempo_de_Servi%C3%A7o https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundo_de_Garantia_do_Tempo_de_.... > what countries specifically don’t take income tax, but instead take a cut of income and put it into a non-government backed retirement account associated specifically to that person Government will never "avoid taking income tax", but instead they will take your income tax and force the employer to finance the employee's retirement account.