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> For one thing the network does not know what sort of content is going over it, text or not. Is it impossible to do? My goal in this post wasn't to argue for

by nwhnwh 2y ago

> For one thing the network does not know what sort of content is going over it, text or not. Is it impossible to do? My goal in this post wasn't to argue for a text-only network or a network with a central e-commerce website, and wasn't to argue about technical details also, but I would like to know if a text-only network is doable or not. And even if both of these ideas are impossible or would have no value... are all other natures or types of different networks impossible and pointless?

PaulHoule 2y ago
It is impossible to do if the network has privacy. In a text-only network for instance somebody could take an image file for instance and encode it as text (hex dump, base64, etc.). For that matter in the 1970s people would print “images” using text characters on a line printer and although mainframes are said to have ‘no graphics capabilities’ you will see plenty of EBCDIC art on 3270 terminals. If you had no privacy all the above behaviors could be punished but with privacy you can’t really stop people from using a network the wrong way. This model used for networking is quite flawed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model but brings out that networking can be seen a number of distinct concerns and that the content you send over it is distinct from the transportation. You might like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Packet_Reporting_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Packet_Reporting_Sys... which would be impractical to send multimedia content over because it is low performance and would be dismissed out of hand by ‘cypherpunks’ because privacy is forbidden by law. So is using it for e-commerce. All kinds of networks are possible, but networks have ‘network effects’ such that the value that people get out of a network is an increasing function of how many people are attached to it. Even networks compatible with the present internet such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6 because even informed people will hesitate to spend time or money on something that only has hypothetical benefits to them. Nothing stops you from forming a network with a small number of friends except for the practical aspects such as having a physical connection. If you are close in space you can maybe use a radio link like WiFi or runs wires but if your friends are in another city your best bet is to make an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overlay_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overlay_network which lets you impose your own rules on top of the economically viable network we share. Since most of the cost of internet service is ‘the last mile’, a connection to your network is going to cost around $40 a month when a connection to the internet costs $50. Few people are going to decide the new network is so good that it replaces the internet so it is a matter of adding a $40 bill to get access to sending text with a few people and having access to an honest but understocked store. The cost to create that store is the same as creating a store that serves thousands or millions more users so it will either not be invested in or pass costs on the users. Such a thing is exclusive, not inclusive, by nature, although that may be the point.
- nwhnwh 2y ago
  I guess by privacy you mean SSL, right? What about this... a network where the default mode is no privacy, but it will allow some apps to have that for things like person-to-person communication, say WhatsApp for example. And it allows the use of images and videos for some websites like companies and government websites, etc. Would that work?... Also, I don't have much understanding of the topic, if you can, please recommened a book.
- nwhnwh 2y ago
  btw, by different network, I meant different protocols basically that will serve the puropse of the network. I don't mean connecting some nodes together using the current internet. So imagine a new service provider, you go and subscribe, and login to the network, you can't receive anything other than text. And the domains are all available at the begining, so no google no microsoft, etc. Except if you allow internetwork domains.

by nwhnwh 2y ago

PaulHoule 2y ago

It is impossible to do if the network has privacy. In a text-only network for instance somebody could take an image file for instance and encode it as text (hex dump, base64, etc.). For that matter in the 1970s people would print “images” using text characters on a line printer and although mainframes are said to have ‘no graphics capabilities’ you will see plenty of EBCDIC art on 3270 terminals. If you had no privacy all the above behaviors could be punished but with privacy you can’t really stop people from using a network the wrong way. This model used for networking is quite flawed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model but brings out that networking can be seen a number of distinct concerns and that the content you send over it is distinct from the transportation. You might like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Packet_Reporting_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Packet_Reporting_Sys... which would be impractical to send multimedia content over because it is low performance and would be dismissed out of hand by ‘cypherpunks’ because privacy is forbidden by law. So is using it for e-commerce. All kinds of networks are possible, but networks have ‘network effects’ such that the value that people get out of a network is an increasing function of how many people are attached to it. Even networks compatible with the present internet such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6 because even informed people will hesitate to spend time or money on something that only has hypothetical benefits to them. Nothing stops you from forming a network with a small number of friends except for the practical aspects such as having a physical connection. If you are close in space you can maybe use a radio link like WiFi or runs wires but if your friends are in another city your best bet is to make an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overlay_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overlay_network which lets you impose your own rules on top of the economically viable network we share. Since most of the cost of internet service is ‘the last mile’, a connection to your network is going to cost around $40 a month when a connection to the internet costs $50. Few people are going to decide the new network is so good that it replaces the internet so it is a matter of adding a $40 bill to get access to sending text with a few people and having access to an honest but understocked store. The cost to create that store is the same as creating a store that serves thousands or millions more users so it will either not be invested in or pass costs on the users. Such a thing is exclusive, not inclusive, by nature, although that may be the point.

nwhnwh 2y ago
I guess by privacy you mean SSL, right? What about this... a network where the default mode is no privacy, but it will allow some apps to have that for things like person-to-person communication, say WhatsApp for example. And it allows the use of images and videos for some websites like companies and government websites, etc. Would that work?... Also, I don't have much understanding of the topic, if you can, please recommened a book.
nwhnwh 2y ago
btw, by different network, I meant different protocols basically that will serve the puropse of the network. I don't mean connecting some nodes together using the current internet. So imagine a new service provider, you go and subscribe, and login to the network, you can't receive anything other than text. And the domains are all available at the begining, so no google no microsoft, etc. Except if you allow internetwork domains.