3 ms·

If you ask about opinions, sure. Because there are no "true" opinions. If you ask about the capital of France, any answer but "Paris" is objectively wrong, whe

If you ask about opinions, sure. Because there are no "true" opinions. If you ask about the capital of France, any answer but "Paris" is objectively wrong, whether given by a human or LLM.

leptons 2y ago
Paris has not always been the capital of France. Many other cities around France have been capital. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_capitals_of_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_capitals_of_France There's practically no subject you could bring up that an LLM wouldn't "hallucinate" or give "wrong" information about given that garbage in -> garbage out, and LLMs are trained on all the garbage (as well as too many facts) they've been able to scrape. The LLM lacks the ability to reason about what century the prompt is asking about, and a guess is all it is programmed to do. Also, if you ask 100 French citizens today what the true capital of France is, you're not always going to get "Paris" as a reply 100 times.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  But if you ask "what is the capital of France" (not what it has been, but what it is), there is actually only one correct answer. "Capital" has a definition, and the headquarters of the government of France has a definite location. Sure, some French citizens will give a different answer. Some people will say the earth is flat, too. They are wrong.
  - leptons 2y ago
    But we're talking about LLMs in this thread, and the example I used of French citizens not always saying Paris is the capital of France is just an example of how topics can be subjective. If you have something pertinent to the LLM discussion, then please reply.
    - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
      The capital of France is not subjective. People say stuff. Some of it is subjective, and some of it is just wrong. So, was your comment about Paris about the LLM discussion, or wasn't it? Because you're the one who brought it up, so if we got off topic, blame yourself. I have asserted that the LLMs are sometimes flat-out wrong. You have answered that point with an example of... what were you trying to say? That humans can also be wrong? If so, that's true, but so what? We were talking about LLMs. Or were you trying to say that even something like the capital of France is actually subjective? If so, you're wrong. "The capital of France" has only one correct answer, even if there are other answers in the training data. Or are you trying to say that it's not the LLM's fault, because the wrong answers are in the training data? That's true, but it's irrelevant. The LLM is still giving wrong answers to questions that have objectively correct answers. The LLM had that in its training data; that's what LLMs are; but that doesn't actually make the answer any less wrong. So what's your actual argument here? You seemed to be headed toward a "no answer can actually be objectively correct", which is both lousy epistemology, and completely unworkable in real life. But then you seemed to veer into... something. What are you actually trying to claim? This is sounding kind of harsh, but I really am not following what your actual point is.
      - leptons 2y ago
        >>The capital of France is not subjective. People say stuff. Some of it is subjective, and some of it is just wrong. >"The capital of France" has only one correct answer, even if there are other answers in the training data. "Champagne is the Champagne capital of France". "Bordeaux is the red wine capital of France". See how easy it is? You're pedantry is only proving that you're a pedant and can't accept anything but you being the only one who is correct. Ease up, bro. We can both be right. But none of that is about LLMs, I'm just proving a separate point. >So what's your actual argument here? A system that's programmed to generate plausible sounding text is "right" when it generates plausible sounding text. It's not "hallucinating", it's not "lying", it's not "wrong", it is operating exactly as designed, it was never programmed to deliver "the truth". It's up the the reader to decide if the output is acceptable, which is entirely subjective to what the reader thinks is right. If the LLM says "Bordeaux is the red wine capital of France" are you going to shit on it and say it's somehow "wrong"? NO ITS WROOOONG THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE TRUE CAPITAL OF FRANNNNNNCEEEE!!! Go ahead and die on that hill if you must. If this were another website, I'd have blocked you already, because this is entirely a waste of my time.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  This got real tedious...
  - leptons 2y ago
    lame response.

If you ask about opinions, sure. Because there are no "true" opinions. If you ask about the capital of France, any answer but "Paris" is objectively wrong, whether given by a human or LLM.

leptons 2y ago

Paris has not always been the capital of France. Many other cities around France have been capital. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_capitals_of_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_capitals_of_France There's practically no subject you could bring up that an LLM wouldn't "hallucinate" or give "wrong" information about given that garbage in -> garbage out, and LLMs are trained on all the garbage (as well as too many facts) they've been able to scrape. The LLM lacks the ability to reason about what century the prompt is asking about, and a guess is all it is programmed to do. Also, if you ask 100 French citizens today what the true capital of France is, you're not always going to get "Paris" as a reply 100 times.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
But if you ask "what is the capital of France" (not what it has been, but what it is), there is actually only one correct answer. "Capital" has a definition, and the headquarters of the government of France has a definite location. Sure, some French citizens will give a different answer. Some people will say the earth is flat, too. They are wrong.
- leptons 2y ago
  But we're talking about LLMs in this thread, and the example I used of French citizens not always saying Paris is the capital of France is just an example of how topics can be subjective. If you have something pertinent to the LLM discussion, then please reply.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    The capital of France is not subjective. People say stuff. Some of it is subjective, and some of it is just wrong. So, was your comment about Paris about the LLM discussion, or wasn't it? Because you're the one who brought it up, so if we got off topic, blame yourself. I have asserted that the LLMs are sometimes flat-out wrong. You have answered that point with an example of... what were you trying to say? That humans can also be wrong? If so, that's true, but so what? We were talking about LLMs. Or were you trying to say that even something like the capital of France is actually subjective? If so, you're wrong. "The capital of France" has only one correct answer, even if there are other answers in the training data. Or are you trying to say that it's not the LLM's fault, because the wrong answers are in the training data? That's true, but it's irrelevant. The LLM is still giving wrong answers to questions that have objectively correct answers. The LLM had that in its training data; that's what LLMs are; but that doesn't actually make the answer any less wrong. So what's your actual argument here? You seemed to be headed toward a "no answer can actually be objectively correct", which is both lousy epistemology, and completely unworkable in real life. But then you seemed to veer into... something. What are you actually trying to claim? This is sounding kind of harsh, but I really am not following what your actual point is.
    - leptons 2y ago
      >>The capital of France is not subjective. People say stuff. Some of it is subjective, and some of it is just wrong. >"The capital of France" has only one correct answer, even if there are other answers in the training data. "Champagne is the Champagne capital of France". "Bordeaux is the red wine capital of France". See how easy it is? You're pedantry is only proving that you're a pedant and can't accept anything but you being the only one who is correct. Ease up, bro. We can both be right. But none of that is about LLMs, I'm just proving a separate point. >So what's your actual argument here? A system that's programmed to generate plausible sounding text is "right" when it generates plausible sounding text. It's not "hallucinating", it's not "lying", it's not "wrong", it is operating exactly as designed, it was never programmed to deliver "the truth". It's up the the reader to decide if the output is acceptable, which is entirely subjective to what the reader thinks is right. If the LLM says "Bordeaux is the red wine capital of France" are you going to shit on it and say it's somehow "wrong"? NO ITS WROOOONG THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE TRUE CAPITAL OF FRANNNNNNCEEEE!!! Go ahead and die on that hill if you must. If this were another website, I'd have blocked you already, because this is entirely a waste of my time.
BurningFrog 2y ago
This got real tedious...
- leptons 2y ago
  lame response.