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Which was not the original plan. Luckily enough pressure was applied to improve the plan. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-postal-service-gas-trucks-electric-bi

Which was not the original plan. Luckily enough pressure was applied to improve the plan. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-postal-service-gas-trucks-electric-biden-epa/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-postal-service-gas-trucks-el...

nielsbot 2y ago
I don’t get it. Wouldn’t electric vehicles save them money in the long run? A lot of money? EDIT: per this comment charging infrastructure was going to be a huge cost. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41544204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41544204
- notatoad 2y ago
  as usual with any large-scale procurement decision, it is a whole lot of politics. the anti-EV people were pushing against it, the defense contractors that run the government had more experience in gas powered vehicles, and the environmentalists were pushing for impractical targets like 100% EV, which just gave ammunition to the people who didn't want EVs. the cool thing here seems to be that practicality is actually going to win out, and the postal trucks will end up being EVs on routes where that makes sense, and internal combustion on routes where EVs don't make sense.
d0gsg0w00f 2y ago
Press, followed by $3 billion extra budget from tax coffers.
- IntelMiner 2y ago
  With the ever increasing cost (both financially and climate) of gasoline, it seems it would pay off in the long-term A friend's Tesla they once worked out costs about "$1 per gallon of gas" equivalent. Meanwhile gas in Seattle is about $4-$5 per gallon
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Depends on driving habits and price of electricity and gas. In Washington state, electricity is cheaper compared to most of the US, and gas is among the most expensive compared to most of the US. For less than ~10k miles per year, the higher up front cost of an electric vehicle and the greater depreciation due to eventual battery replacement might make a hybrid gas vehicle still cheaper per mile. But for high mileage, high frequency of stop and go driving, I imagine all electric is cheapest?
    - adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
      the battery depreciation is per mile, so I don't think the mileage per year will factor into it heavily.
      - quailfarmer 2y ago
        The published ratings of battery depreciation are per-mile, because there’s not really any other way to straightforwardly measure it, but the chemistry of battery degradation is very complex, and factors like number of high-current heating cycles and depth of discharge definitely matter.
    - mgerdts 2y ago
      > might make a hybrid gas vehicle still cheaper per mile I agree. What is unconscionable is deploying 10s of thousands of vehicles that spend every day of operation accelerating rather quickly then coming to a full stop within a few seconds without using regenerative braking.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Electric is likely cheapest considering duty cycle and fuel usage, and the battery should not need to be replaced for hundreds of thousands of miles, at which point we will have better batteries that last even longer and are cheaper. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41409422 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41409422 https://petapixel.com/2024/08/30/scientists-discovered-a-way-to-make-your-batteries-survive-way-longer/ https://petapixel.com/2024/08/30/scientists-discovered-a-way... https://www.cell.com/joule/abstract/S2542-4351(24)00353-2 https://www.cell.com/joule/abstract/S2542-4351(24)00353-2
_heimdall 2y ago
Its probably too soon to know if that pressure succeeding was lucky or a mistake. I love the idea of having an all electric fleet if it's feasible and better than the alternatives. I also have to assume the original plan to only electrify part of the fleet has functional reasons behind it. If those reasons are overcome, or if that decision was somehow entirely political, then the pressure is lucky. Otherwise...we'll see?

nielsbot 2y ago

I don’t get it. Wouldn’t electric vehicles save them money in the long run? A lot of money? EDIT: per this comment charging infrastructure was going to be a huge cost. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41544204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41544204

notatoad 2y ago
as usual with any large-scale procurement decision, it is a whole lot of politics. the anti-EV people were pushing against it, the defense contractors that run the government had more experience in gas powered vehicles, and the environmentalists were pushing for impractical targets like 100% EV, which just gave ammunition to the people who didn't want EVs. the cool thing here seems to be that practicality is actually going to win out, and the postal trucks will end up being EVs on routes where that makes sense, and internal combustion on routes where EVs don't make sense.

d0gsg0w00f 2y ago

Press, followed by $3 billion extra budget from tax coffers.

IntelMiner 2y ago
With the ever increasing cost (both financially and climate) of gasoline, it seems it would pay off in the long-term A friend's Tesla they once worked out costs about "$1 per gallon of gas" equivalent. Meanwhile gas in Seattle is about $4-$5 per gallon
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Depends on driving habits and price of electricity and gas. In Washington state, electricity is cheaper compared to most of the US, and gas is among the most expensive compared to most of the US. For less than ~10k miles per year, the higher up front cost of an electric vehicle and the greater depreciation due to eventual battery replacement might make a hybrid gas vehicle still cheaper per mile. But for high mileage, high frequency of stop and go driving, I imagine all electric is cheapest?
  - adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
    the battery depreciation is per mile, so I don't think the mileage per year will factor into it heavily.
    - quailfarmer 2y ago
      The published ratings of battery depreciation are per-mile, because there’s not really any other way to straightforwardly measure it, but the chemistry of battery degradation is very complex, and factors like number of high-current heating cycles and depth of discharge definitely matter.
  - mgerdts 2y ago
    > might make a hybrid gas vehicle still cheaper per mile I agree. What is unconscionable is deploying 10s of thousands of vehicles that spend every day of operation accelerating rather quickly then coming to a full stop within a few seconds without using regenerative braking.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Electric is likely cheapest considering duty cycle and fuel usage, and the battery should not need to be replaced for hundreds of thousands of miles, at which point we will have better batteries that last even longer and are cheaper. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41409422 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41409422 https://petapixel.com/2024/08/30/scientists-discovered-a-way-to-make-your-batteries-survive-way-longer/ https://petapixel.com/2024/08/30/scientists-discovered-a-way... https://www.cell.com/joule/abstract/S2542-4351(24)00353-2 https://www.cell.com/joule/abstract/S2542-4351(24)00353-2

_heimdall 2y ago

Its probably too soon to know if that pressure succeeding was lucky or a mistake. I love the idea of having an all electric fleet if it's feasible and better than the alternatives. I also have to assume the original plan to only electrify part of the fleet has functional reasons behind it. If those reasons are overcome, or if that decision was somehow entirely political, then the pressure is lucky. Otherwise...we'll see?