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I think another way to explain "being bored" (and a bunch of other features that this post describes). These people are getting old: Andreessen is 53, Graham is

I think another way to explain "being bored" (and a bunch of other features that this post describes). These people are getting old: Andreessen is 53, Graham is 59, the author is in his fifties; I am too. Nothing too surprising about having older people be the supposed "blowhard" voices of an industry -- except during the golden age that these posts harken back too, all of these pundits were twenty or so years younger. I'm prompted to think about this after watching the last Apple event livestream, and thinking to myself "these people all seem so /old/". Steve Jobs seemed ancient to me when he returned to Apple in 1997: he was 42. This is not to say that techs, hackers, etc, have grown old -- but the distribution of ages has definitely widened, and its center may have shifted a little right too. That leaves plenty of room for much younger people to look at much older people and wonder at their strange, blowhard opinions. It also leads to older types feeling tired and bored with tech : and projecting that as the dominant tone to those of any age.

zoom6628 2y ago
As an older person in tech I see ageism alive and well in tech. The young ones don't understand why we oldies roll our eyes at hearing the 13th iteration of "this is ground breaking new idea" or when we gently interrupt a personnel or strategy discussion with a few use cases from the past to illustrate the pending shit-storm being proposed. Time for the world realise this tech stuff and programming has been around about 100 years! Let that settle in. A century of code. So the tech population is now clever and curious 8 year olds all the way through to 80+ curious and seasoned Algol programmers. And we ALL have value. #endofrant
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- eric-hu 2y ago
  How have you kept the ageism from scaring you off or just turning you off to go to another industry?
- archgoon 2y ago
  What were they coding on in 1924?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - rm_-rf_slash 2y ago
    Tabulating machines were developed by IBM’s predecessor for the 1890 census and used in various forms until evolving into punchcard computers.
    - archgoon 2y ago
      The Jacquard Loom predates that by over 80 years. I'm sure we can stretch the definition further and go back even farther.
  - jessekv 2y ago
    Things were a bit more collaborative back in the day. https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/news/2016/10/31/when-computers-were-human/ https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/news/2016/10/31/when-computers-...
  - RichardCA 2y ago
    The engineering knowledge that went into the WWII fire control computers was clearly a form of programming. You will also notice the words "computer", "input", and "output" are used without needing to be explained. https://youtu.be/s1i-dnAH9Y4 https://youtu.be/s1i-dnAH9Y4
  - louthy 2y ago
    Ada Lovelace was coding in 1843.
- kentbrokeman 2y ago
  [dead]
- fauigerzigerk 2y ago
  Sure, ageism is bad. I'm in my 50s too and I've seen my share of hype cycles. But I think there is a danger of overreacting to the unbridled enthusiasm of younger people. Every new cyle comes with ideas that are similar to what we have seen before. Sometimes I find myself thinking, OK, been there, done that, doesn't work. But I suspect that there is a sort of experience bias that lets me see the similarities far more clearly than what's new and different. In every cycle people claim that it's nothing new and yet, with hindsight, we often find that small differences were important enough to change the world unpredictable ways. I think it has value for older folks to contribute arguments and perspectives, but let's not be too self-righteous about it. Similar ideas can lead to very different outcomes in a different context.
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    One problem with ageism and youth bias in the industry is that we are still heavily populated with devs more interested in hopping on the latest framework they heard about at a conference than in actually solving users problems. The amount of "how do I justify a rewrite because our tech stack is bad" posts you see in your typical reddit/etc programmer forum would remind you of this.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      > devs more interested in hopping on the latest framework they heard about at a conference than in actually solving users problems. The amount of "how do I justify a rewrite because our tech stack is bad" posts you see in your typical reddit/etc programmer forum would remind you of this. These are old complaints. My dad worked in the tech industry since the pre-Mosaic days, and even then you'd hear the same arguments and complaints. The same way people complain about React today is the same way people complained about Spring, and then about how old school C programmers complained about C++ with it "training wheels", and BASIC programmers complaining about "OOP", and old school networking types complaining about built-in TCP/IP instead of spinning up your own stack. Technologies and frameworks change. That's how tech always works. Sure I can demolish a building with a sledgehammer, but why not adopt dynamite or bulldozers if it efficiently solves the problem. At some point, all these complaints are just Ludditism from techies who didn't upskill and/or are unable to communicate.
- hcks 2y ago
  > The young ones don't understand why we oldies roll our eyes at hearing the 13th iteration of "this is ground breaking new idea" Why not constructively contribute by explaining what could be different for the idea to work this time? Or if you hate innovation (i.e. retrying age old ideas slightly differently - hoping this time it will work), why don't you pick another industry?
thr0w 2y ago
While it seems clear that general vibe is trending to the negative, it's interesting to me that everyone has their own slant on it. My personal issue with Graham is that his writings are all trite common sense-isms dressed up as complicated analogies or profound insight. Like the way people claim Steve Jobs had a "reality distortion field", as if the term "charisma" wasn't coined for good reason a billion years ago... I mean, at least Andreessen communicates directly, even if he's out of touch and tone deaf. Anyway, we all have our gripes, and I think this article is poorly written, and the original article it links to is even worse. Doing no service to the fact that the people currently orbiting our little hovel of geekdom leave a lot to be desired. Or maybe you think this rant is poorly written and misses the mark...
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  > Like the way people claim Steve Jobs had a "reality distortion field", as if the term "charisma" wasn't coined for good reason a billion years ago... Charisma is active - as in, the charismatic leader talks you into believing their bullshit. Reality distortion field is passive - as in, you hang out too much around the leader, or people hanging out around the leader, and you end up believing their bullshit.
  - mlinhares 2y ago
    If there’s a person on this planet what was never passive that person is Steve Jobs.
- namaria 2y ago
  > Like the way people claim Steve Jobs had a "reality distortion field", as if the term "charisma" wasn't coined for good reason Back in the day that was called 'being charming', not 'charismatic', and it was an offense: you're being intentionally dishonest and manipulative. Now it just means it's cute. Language changes...
  - scandox 2y ago
    It must change a lot...when was being charming ever an offense?
rockskon 2y ago
It can also be explained by there being stuck with the same soul-destroying business model for decades that's slowly taking over everything and making life shittier for everyone except marketers to optimize revenue.
- lazide 2y ago
  Aka ‘burnout’ or ‘late stage of the business model’. Eventually, people just get tired of doing it the same way.
DidYaWipe 2y ago
There are just as many young blowhards. A lot of "tech" is mature now. People whine "where's the innovation" in phones, for example. At this point, WTF do you want them to do? Where's the "innovation" in spreadsheets or word processors? It IS kinda boring. And it's not going to get better when it's a bunch of recycled pablum shat out by "AI."
- namaria 2y ago
  You're being downvoted possibly because of the tone, but there's something to what you're saying. People keep creating toil because they want to re-invent databases or distributed systems when we already know how to do them properly. I blame greed. It was all the people coming into the field for the money and trying to entertain themselves at work because they don't like tech, they like feeling smart.
  - DidYaWipe 2y ago
    Me? What "tone?"
- Earw0rm 2y ago
  I'd say the same about microprocessors. They haven't changed _that_ much now in about 15 years. You could put a Core2 Quad on the same playfield as the latest and greatest Zen or Intel "14th Gen" - they're recognisably the same in ways that, say, a 1996 Pentium Pro and a 1981 8088 just aren't. At the same time, I wouldn't write off machine learning models so quickly. Applied in tight focus, they're unlocking a bunch of capabilities, even if consumer-grade Dall-E, ChatGPT etc are mostly automated bullshit generators.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
331c8c71 2y ago
Getting older is indeed a factor and I am surprised tha author didn't reflect on that himself. While it might be the case, there's definitely something else going on which I would describe as tech "globalisation" or "unification". The industry that looked like an archipelago of islands with their own ecosystems, philosophies and values increasingly looks like monoculture fields replicated zillion times (yc-style startups and "big tech co" being the two most popular breeds). Of course, the reality is more subtle than this - but the alternative voices and perspectives are completely overpowered by the mainstream narratives - to the point of being barely detectable.

zoom6628 2y ago

As an older person in tech I see ageism alive and well in tech. The young ones don't understand why we oldies roll our eyes at hearing the 13th iteration of "this is ground breaking new idea" or when we gently interrupt a personnel or strategy discussion with a few use cases from the past to illustrate the pending shit-storm being proposed. Time for the world realise this tech stuff and programming has been around about 100 years! Let that settle in. A century of code. So the tech population is now clever and curious 8 year olds all the way through to 80+ curious and seasoned Algol programmers. And we ALL have value. #endofrant

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
eric-hu 2y ago
How have you kept the ageism from scaring you off or just turning you off to go to another industry?
archgoon 2y ago
What were they coding on in 1924?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- rm_-rf_slash 2y ago
  Tabulating machines were developed by IBM’s predecessor for the 1890 census and used in various forms until evolving into punchcard computers.
  - archgoon 2y ago
    The Jacquard Loom predates that by over 80 years. I'm sure we can stretch the definition further and go back even farther.
- jessekv 2y ago
  Things were a bit more collaborative back in the day. https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/news/2016/10/31/when-computers-were-human/ https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/news/2016/10/31/when-computers-...
- RichardCA 2y ago
  The engineering knowledge that went into the WWII fire control computers was clearly a form of programming. You will also notice the words "computer", "input", and "output" are used without needing to be explained. https://youtu.be/s1i-dnAH9Y4 https://youtu.be/s1i-dnAH9Y4
- louthy 2y ago
  Ada Lovelace was coding in 1843.
kentbrokeman 2y ago
[dead]
fauigerzigerk 2y ago
Sure, ageism is bad. I'm in my 50s too and I've seen my share of hype cycles. But I think there is a danger of overreacting to the unbridled enthusiasm of younger people. Every new cyle comes with ideas that are similar to what we have seen before. Sometimes I find myself thinking, OK, been there, done that, doesn't work. But I suspect that there is a sort of experience bias that lets me see the similarities far more clearly than what's new and different. In every cycle people claim that it's nothing new and yet, with hindsight, we often find that small differences were important enough to change the world unpredictable ways. I think it has value for older folks to contribute arguments and perspectives, but let's not be too self-righteous about it. Similar ideas can lead to very different outcomes in a different context.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  One problem with ageism and youth bias in the industry is that we are still heavily populated with devs more interested in hopping on the latest framework they heard about at a conference than in actually solving users problems. The amount of "how do I justify a rewrite because our tech stack is bad" posts you see in your typical reddit/etc programmer forum would remind you of this.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    > devs more interested in hopping on the latest framework they heard about at a conference than in actually solving users problems. The amount of "how do I justify a rewrite because our tech stack is bad" posts you see in your typical reddit/etc programmer forum would remind you of this. These are old complaints. My dad worked in the tech industry since the pre-Mosaic days, and even then you'd hear the same arguments and complaints. The same way people complain about React today is the same way people complained about Spring, and then about how old school C programmers complained about C++ with it "training wheels", and BASIC programmers complaining about "OOP", and old school networking types complaining about built-in TCP/IP instead of spinning up your own stack. Technologies and frameworks change. That's how tech always works. Sure I can demolish a building with a sledgehammer, but why not adopt dynamite or bulldozers if it efficiently solves the problem. At some point, all these complaints are just Ludditism from techies who didn't upskill and/or are unable to communicate.
hcks 2y ago
> The young ones don't understand why we oldies roll our eyes at hearing the 13th iteration of "this is ground breaking new idea" Why not constructively contribute by explaining what could be different for the idea to work this time? Or if you hate innovation (i.e. retrying age old ideas slightly differently - hoping this time it will work), why don't you pick another industry?

thr0w 2y ago

While it seems clear that general vibe is trending to the negative, it's interesting to me that everyone has their own slant on it. My personal issue with Graham is that his writings are all trite common sense-isms dressed up as complicated analogies or profound insight. Like the way people claim Steve Jobs had a "reality distortion field", as if the term "charisma" wasn't coined for good reason a billion years ago... I mean, at least Andreessen communicates directly, even if he's out of touch and tone deaf. Anyway, we all have our gripes, and I think this article is poorly written, and the original article it links to is even worse. Doing no service to the fact that the people currently orbiting our little hovel of geekdom leave a lot to be desired. Or maybe you think this rant is poorly written and misses the mark...

TeMPOraL 2y ago
> Like the way people claim Steve Jobs had a "reality distortion field", as if the term "charisma" wasn't coined for good reason a billion years ago... Charisma is active - as in, the charismatic leader talks you into believing their bullshit. Reality distortion field is passive - as in, you hang out too much around the leader, or people hanging out around the leader, and you end up believing their bullshit.
- mlinhares 2y ago
  If there’s a person on this planet what was never passive that person is Steve Jobs.
namaria 2y ago
> Like the way people claim Steve Jobs had a "reality distortion field", as if the term "charisma" wasn't coined for good reason Back in the day that was called 'being charming', not 'charismatic', and it was an offense: you're being intentionally dishonest and manipulative. Now it just means it's cute. Language changes...
- scandox 2y ago
  It must change a lot...when was being charming ever an offense?

rockskon 2y ago

It can also be explained by there being stuck with the same soul-destroying business model for decades that's slowly taking over everything and making life shittier for everyone except marketers to optimize revenue.

lazide 2y ago
Aka ‘burnout’ or ‘late stage of the business model’. Eventually, people just get tired of doing it the same way.

DidYaWipe 2y ago

There are just as many young blowhards. A lot of "tech" is mature now. People whine "where's the innovation" in phones, for example. At this point, WTF do you want them to do? Where's the "innovation" in spreadsheets or word processors? It IS kinda boring. And it's not going to get better when it's a bunch of recycled pablum shat out by "AI."

namaria 2y ago
You're being downvoted possibly because of the tone, but there's something to what you're saying. People keep creating toil because they want to re-invent databases or distributed systems when we already know how to do them properly. I blame greed. It was all the people coming into the field for the money and trying to entertain themselves at work because they don't like tech, they like feeling smart.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  Me? What "tone?"
Earw0rm 2y ago
I'd say the same about microprocessors. They haven't changed _that_ much now in about 15 years. You could put a Core2 Quad on the same playfield as the latest and greatest Zen or Intel "14th Gen" - they're recognisably the same in ways that, say, a 1996 Pentium Pro and a 1981 8088 just aren't. At the same time, I wouldn't write off machine learning models so quickly. Applied in tight focus, they're unlocking a bunch of capabilities, even if consumer-grade Dall-E, ChatGPT etc are mostly automated bullshit generators.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

331c8c71 2y ago

Getting older is indeed a factor and I am surprised tha author didn't reflect on that himself. While it might be the case, there's definitely something else going on which I would describe as tech "globalisation" or "unification". The industry that looked like an archipelago of islands with their own ecosystems, philosophies and values increasingly looks like monoculture fields replicated zillion times (yc-style startups and "big tech co" being the two most popular breeds). Of course, the reality is more subtle than this - but the alternative voices and perspectives are completely overpowered by the mainstream narratives - to the point of being barely detectable.