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Let me reword this. "One in five genetics papers contains errors because the authors were careless when using Excel". I dislike Excel for what it does (EUCs, n

Let me reword this. "One in five genetics papers contains errors because the authors were careless when using Excel". I dislike Excel for what it does (EUCs, nearly impossible to track changes, etc.) But on the other hand it is an amazing tool.

monocasa 2y ago
> One in five genetics papers contains errors because the authors were careless when using Excel Or Excel is a remarkably easy tool to mishandle because of generally unexpected transformations it makes 'for you' automatically in an easy to miss way.
- prepend 2y ago
  You think Excel should make special accommodations because genetics authors misuse it? Excel has been acting this way since before bioinformatics existed. Authors need to use their tools properly.
  - chucksmash 2y ago
    Excel (and GSheets) are tools where I think a stripped down "trust my input, I know what I'm doing" mode that doesn't try to intuit user intent would be useful. As I type this comment and my phone miscorrects "intuit" to "Intuit," I think also Google keyboard could benefit from such a mode that only handles spelling mistakes but doesn't replace uncommon words with common brands, etc.
    - tengwar2 2y ago
      But if you actually do know what you are doing, you know to set the cell type appropriately.
      - dehugger 2y ago
        Yes, of course. Every cell as type "Text" so it doesnt screw up everything I paste... The real problem is the behavior of the default "General" type, which actually means "guess at every value and ham up all my data." I frequently have to paste in strings which consist of 0 prefixed number ids. I know very well to make sure the column is text before pasting, but other users don't always remember and frequently get their data messed up by the behavior of "General", which assumes that what you wanted was an integer and thus "helpfully" strips all the prefixed 0s.
        HenryBemis 2y ago
        I get all the points made (and the many more not included). The point is that Excel works great for 99% of the people and for 99% of the use-cases. I am a heavy excel user, for my financial planning, work, etc. And it pisses me off when I see a column that should be "networkdays" (working days) becoming $ or getting decimals, but hey, you take the bad with the good.
  - Prickle 2y ago
    They already did in 2023. Excel did not have an option for turning automatic conversions off. You can now, FINALLY disable automatic conversion. Honestly that "feature" has been a bane of my existence, and I don't work with genes.
    - macintux 2y ago
      I had no idea. Found https://insider.microsoft365.com/en-us/blog/control-data-conversions-in-excel-for-windows-and-mac https://insider.microsoft365.com/en-us/blog/control-data-con..., thanks. I’d love to know the percentage of corrupted data across all Excel workbooks.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
rectang 2y ago
Oh, come on. The Excel user interface encourages mistakes, as surely as a bicycle with handlebars that steer backwards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 It's not all on the users.
- dudus 2y ago
  I had a different interpretation of the video you linked. It seems to me even a backwards bicycle is perfectly drivable as long as you adjust you mental model. In that sense the excel UI doesn't make sense only for those not used to it. Which might be a nice analogy
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  At least it's a bicycle. Remember the whole "computer as bicycle for the mind" thing? That didn't happen, the world went in the opposite direction. Software like Excel are the last surviving remnants of the idea of empowering end users to improve their work and lives.
  - happytoexplain 2y ago
    > Software like Excel are the last surviving remnants of the idea of empowering end users to improve their work and lives. I agree. I love Excel. But this attitude only makes sense if we assume one can only fix easy-to-make mistakes by dumbing the software down, which is not true.
happytoexplain 2y ago
There are three options: 1. Make the software better (very hard on complex systems with GUIs) 2. Ensure everybody knows all footguns (impossible) 3. Don't care about those people (easy) If we opt for #3, we might as well not even be in software as a profession/hobby. Having such low standards indicates that we don't really care.
TeMPOraL 2y ago
> EUCs Had to search for that one. It seems that EUC here means "end-user computing", and I was shocked to discover it's a pejorative term used by vendors to describe what they consider a problem that needs solving,
rzzzt 2y ago
Careless as in they type in "MARCH1" or "SEPT2" in a cell and these get turned automagically into 1-Mar and 2-Sep dates after pressing Enter?

monocasa 2y ago

> One in five genetics papers contains errors because the authors were careless when using Excel Or Excel is a remarkably easy tool to mishandle because of generally unexpected transformations it makes 'for you' automatically in an easy to miss way.

prepend 2y ago
You think Excel should make special accommodations because genetics authors misuse it? Excel has been acting this way since before bioinformatics existed. Authors need to use their tools properly.
- chucksmash 2y ago
  Excel (and GSheets) are tools where I think a stripped down "trust my input, I know what I'm doing" mode that doesn't try to intuit user intent would be useful. As I type this comment and my phone miscorrects "intuit" to "Intuit," I think also Google keyboard could benefit from such a mode that only handles spelling mistakes but doesn't replace uncommon words with common brands, etc.
  - tengwar2 2y ago
    But if you actually do know what you are doing, you know to set the cell type appropriately.
    - dehugger 2y ago
      Yes, of course. Every cell as type "Text" so it doesnt screw up everything I paste... The real problem is the behavior of the default "General" type, which actually means "guess at every value and ham up all my data." I frequently have to paste in strings which consist of 0 prefixed number ids. I know very well to make sure the column is text before pasting, but other users don't always remember and frequently get their data messed up by the behavior of "General", which assumes that what you wanted was an integer and thus "helpfully" strips all the prefixed 0s.
      - HenryBemis 2y ago
        I get all the points made (and the many more not included). The point is that Excel works great for 99% of the people and for 99% of the use-cases. I am a heavy excel user, for my financial planning, work, etc. And it pisses me off when I see a column that should be "networkdays" (working days) becoming $ or getting decimals, but hey, you take the bad with the good.
- Prickle 2y ago
  They already did in 2023. Excel did not have an option for turning automatic conversions off. You can now, FINALLY disable automatic conversion. Honestly that "feature" has been a bane of my existence, and I don't work with genes.
  - macintux 2y ago
    I had no idea. Found https://insider.microsoft365.com/en-us/blog/control-data-conversions-in-excel-for-windows-and-mac https://insider.microsoft365.com/en-us/blog/control-data-con..., thanks. I’d love to know the percentage of corrupted data across all Excel workbooks.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

rectang 2y ago

Oh, come on. The Excel user interface encourages mistakes, as surely as a bicycle with handlebars that steer backwards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 It's not all on the users.

dudus 2y ago
I had a different interpretation of the video you linked. It seems to me even a backwards bicycle is perfectly drivable as long as you adjust you mental model. In that sense the excel UI doesn't make sense only for those not used to it. Which might be a nice analogy
TeMPOraL 2y ago
At least it's a bicycle. Remember the whole "computer as bicycle for the mind" thing? That didn't happen, the world went in the opposite direction. Software like Excel are the last surviving remnants of the idea of empowering end users to improve their work and lives.
- happytoexplain 2y ago
  > Software like Excel are the last surviving remnants of the idea of empowering end users to improve their work and lives. I agree. I love Excel. But this attitude only makes sense if we assume one can only fix easy-to-make mistakes by dumbing the software down, which is not true.

happytoexplain 2y ago

There are three options: 1. Make the software better (very hard on complex systems with GUIs) 2. Ensure everybody knows all footguns (impossible) 3. Don't care about those people (easy) If we opt for #3, we might as well not even be in software as a profession/hobby. Having such low standards indicates that we don't really care.

TeMPOraL 2y ago

> EUCs Had to search for that one. It seems that EUC here means "end-user computing", and I was shocked to discover it's a pejorative term used by vendors to describe what they consider a problem that needs solving,

rzzzt 2y ago

Careless as in they type in "MARCH1" or "SEPT2" in a cell and these get turned automagically into 1-Mar and 2-Sep dates after pressing Enter?