4 ms·

Classic. Remember, the BOFH is no longer the "operator" of some systems at a university. Now he's your ISP, your search engine, your social media services, and

by Canada 2y ago

Classic. Remember, the BOFH is no longer the "operator" of some systems at a university. Now he's your ISP, your search engine, your social media services, and many other important things you rely on. "Well, the answer is, we do nothing FOR users. We do things TO users. It's a fine distinction, but an important one all the same." https://www.chinet.com/html/bofh/lastbofh.html https://www.chinet.com/html/bofh/lastbofh.html

GuB-42 2y ago
The situation has changed. There is less opportunities for the kind of evil the BOFH is known for. The operator used to be one guy doing stuff no one understand, maybe not a high salary, but a huge amount of individual power when it comes to computers. The situation is different now, computers are serious business, and the higher ups are keeping a close look, some of them even know a thing or two about computers. There are external audits, surveillance, and paperwork. It is much harder to wipe one guy's data just because he pissed you off and get away with it. Bureaucracy is the new evil. While the new BOFH can't easily wipe off your work anymore, he definitely can ask you to fill up a multi-page form of conflicting requirements in order to access a resource you need. That's the process you know.
- GauntletWizard 2y ago
  The situation hasn't changed at all. There are tons of compliance auditors, and they can write all the policy they want, but they can't audit the day to day. When I was at Facebook, there was a very strict official policy and warning in Bootcamp that "The security team knows when you impersonate a user, and you will be fired if it's not for good reason". I still saw people impersonating their girlfriends, their ex girlfriends, their crushes; None of them got noticed or even fired, and there was tacit acknowledgement that it was widespread. This was the same company that encouraged people to install their root certificate so they could MITM your connections[1]. You need to be worried about both. There's probably more banal evil than there was, but it's not because the assholes with petty power have disappeared. All that said; The BOFH stories were never about the kind of evil you actually find in technical circles. There were juvenile power fantasy about being an evil trickster god; They were catharsis about all the times you are angry and frustrated at your coworkers; Yes, you want to hit them, shock them, throw them down the stairs - The same way that you wish you had a rocket launcher to blast the car ahead of you off the freeway. It's ridiculous power fantasy, and it's kind of shameful that tech has so many people that view it as "unhealthy" rather than crass for the sake of being crass; It is over the line twice. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/29/18202880/facebook-research-enterprise-root-certificate-onavo-techcrunch https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/29/18202880/facebook-researc...
  - sulandor 2y ago
    > It is over the line twice. satire definitely took a few punches during the last decade
    - tempodox 2y ago
      The success of social media gave more influence to people who have no sense of humor.
      - CRConrad 2y ago
        Oh, they do, they do... It's just that it's on a three-year-old's level. As was to be expected from people who are in all other ways too.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    The European privacy regulators would love to know about the impersonation at Facebook, if it's still happening or if there's any evidence. Facebook should consider this a business risk — one disgruntled employee could report it.
- FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
  Oh I assure you we in the systems admin game still have a lot of tricks for people who piss us off... Most comman is "malicious compliance" Just do EXACTLY what management tells us to do... things tend to go to crap real fast.
  - Moru 2y ago
    This is what is meant with Bureaucracy. And it's not just the BOFH's of the world, this is the same in all areas where there is a bit of personal power. There will be rules and they will be followed very very closely no matter what breaks down. Be it package delivery, care of elderly, hospitals, permissions related to building houses, and so on.
    - tempodox 2y ago
      The upside of bureaucracy is that it allows you to ignore reality. And if reality doesn't conform, it's reality's fault.
- Anarch157a 2y ago
  > It is much harder to wipe one guy's data just because he pissed you off and get away with it. The point parent was making is that corporations are doing that, since corpos are now persons, thanks to Citizens United, any argument about this being bureaucratic, autocratic or what not, is moot. Fact is, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. frequently deactivate and wipe user accounts with disastous consequences for the victims.
  - anamexis 2y ago
    That has nothing to do with Citizens United, which only concerned campaign finance rules in federal elections. Furthermore, the Citizens United ruling makes no reference at all to corporate personhood.
    - devilbunny 2y ago
      CU was a strange but IMHO probably correct decision. A lot of people don't like its practical effects, and that's certainly their right, but purely as a legal matter, it does seem odd that you would lose autonomy when you band together. It is, in a way, the ultimate conservative comeback to "government is just another name for things we choose to do together" - well, so are corporations. Maybe it's not the way things should be, but it's hardly as though the news business has not had far more radical things happen in the past, oh, forty years.
      - martin-t 2y ago
        > purely as a legal matter, it does seem odd that you would lose autonomy when you band together It absolutely makes sense. Laws set rules for resolving conflicts between entities (both people and organizations). In general, the more power an entity has, the more likely it is to abuse that power and the more damage it can do in its abuse and therefore needs more oversight and restrictions on the use of power. Organizations are obviously more powerful than individuals so require more oversight and restrictions to keep them in check. The only odd thing is that organizations don't accumulate more restrictions according to their size.
      - 2y ago
- amiga386 2y ago
  > not a high salary, but a huge amount of individual power He's now a voluntary moderator for Reddit, Discord, etc. Anywhere there are users he can lord it over and stroke his ego. Heck, he'd probably pay you to _let_ him moderate.
- necovek 2y ago
  BOFH was funny because it showcased the technical possibilities when applied in the worst possible way, just like lots of comedy today. Remembering a bunch of those stories, they were pretty much highly unlikely even back in the day (tracing phone calls — many of these stories were redirecting calls to other numbers — was possible even back in 80s).

by Canada 2y ago

GuB-42 2y ago

The situation has changed. There is less opportunities for the kind of evil the BOFH is known for. The operator used to be one guy doing stuff no one understand, maybe not a high salary, but a huge amount of individual power when it comes to computers. The situation is different now, computers are serious business, and the higher ups are keeping a close look, some of them even know a thing or two about computers. There are external audits, surveillance, and paperwork. It is much harder to wipe one guy's data just because he pissed you off and get away with it. Bureaucracy is the new evil. While the new BOFH can't easily wipe off your work anymore, he definitely can ask you to fill up a multi-page form of conflicting requirements in order to access a resource you need. That's the process you know.

GauntletWizard 2y ago
The situation hasn't changed at all. There are tons of compliance auditors, and they can write all the policy they want, but they can't audit the day to day. When I was at Facebook, there was a very strict official policy and warning in Bootcamp that "The security team knows when you impersonate a user, and you will be fired if it's not for good reason". I still saw people impersonating their girlfriends, their ex girlfriends, their crushes; None of them got noticed or even fired, and there was tacit acknowledgement that it was widespread. This was the same company that encouraged people to install their root certificate so they could MITM your connections[1]. You need to be worried about both. There's probably more banal evil than there was, but it's not because the assholes with petty power have disappeared. All that said; The BOFH stories were never about the kind of evil you actually find in technical circles. There were juvenile power fantasy about being an evil trickster god; They were catharsis about all the times you are angry and frustrated at your coworkers; Yes, you want to hit them, shock them, throw them down the stairs - The same way that you wish you had a rocket launcher to blast the car ahead of you off the freeway. It's ridiculous power fantasy, and it's kind of shameful that tech has so many people that view it as "unhealthy" rather than crass for the sake of being crass; It is over the line twice. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/29/18202880/facebook-research-enterprise-root-certificate-onavo-techcrunch https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/29/18202880/facebook-researc...
- sulandor 2y ago
  > It is over the line twice. satire definitely took a few punches during the last decade
  - tempodox 2y ago
    The success of social media gave more influence to people who have no sense of humor.
    - CRConrad 2y ago
      Oh, they do, they do... It's just that it's on a three-year-old's level. As was to be expected from people who are in all other ways too.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  The European privacy regulators would love to know about the impersonation at Facebook, if it's still happening or if there's any evidence. Facebook should consider this a business risk — one disgruntled employee could report it.
FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
Oh I assure you we in the systems admin game still have a lot of tricks for people who piss us off... Most comman is "malicious compliance" Just do EXACTLY what management tells us to do... things tend to go to crap real fast.
- Moru 2y ago
  This is what is meant with Bureaucracy. And it's not just the BOFH's of the world, this is the same in all areas where there is a bit of personal power. There will be rules and they will be followed very very closely no matter what breaks down. Be it package delivery, care of elderly, hospitals, permissions related to building houses, and so on.
  - tempodox 2y ago
    The upside of bureaucracy is that it allows you to ignore reality. And if reality doesn't conform, it's reality's fault.
Anarch157a 2y ago
> It is much harder to wipe one guy's data just because he pissed you off and get away with it. The point parent was making is that corporations are doing that, since corpos are now persons, thanks to Citizens United, any argument about this being bureaucratic, autocratic or what not, is moot. Fact is, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. frequently deactivate and wipe user accounts with disastous consequences for the victims.
- anamexis 2y ago
  That has nothing to do with Citizens United, which only concerned campaign finance rules in federal elections. Furthermore, the Citizens United ruling makes no reference at all to corporate personhood.
  - devilbunny 2y ago
    CU was a strange but IMHO probably correct decision. A lot of people don't like its practical effects, and that's certainly their right, but purely as a legal matter, it does seem odd that you would lose autonomy when you band together. It is, in a way, the ultimate conservative comeback to "government is just another name for things we choose to do together" - well, so are corporations. Maybe it's not the way things should be, but it's hardly as though the news business has not had far more radical things happen in the past, oh, forty years.
    - martin-t 2y ago
      > purely as a legal matter, it does seem odd that you would lose autonomy when you band together It absolutely makes sense. Laws set rules for resolving conflicts between entities (both people and organizations). In general, the more power an entity has, the more likely it is to abuse that power and the more damage it can do in its abuse and therefore needs more oversight and restrictions on the use of power. Organizations are obviously more powerful than individuals so require more oversight and restrictions to keep them in check. The only odd thing is that organizations don't accumulate more restrictions according to their size.
    - 2y ago
amiga386 2y ago
> not a high salary, but a huge amount of individual power He's now a voluntary moderator for Reddit, Discord, etc. Anywhere there are users he can lord it over and stroke his ego. Heck, he'd probably pay you to _let_ him moderate.
necovek 2y ago
BOFH was funny because it showcased the technical possibilities when applied in the worst possible way, just like lots of comedy today. Remembering a bunch of those stories, they were pretty much highly unlikely even back in the day (tracing phone calls — many of these stories were redirecting calls to other numbers — was possible even back in 80s).