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You misunderstand the point people saying this make. They know governments can suppress their freedoms ultimately but since Bitcoin is an open and public system

You misunderstand the point people saying this make. They know governments can suppress their freedoms ultimately but since Bitcoin is an open and public system, the measures governments have to use to "kill" it force them to limit very fundamental freedoms (like freedom of speech to restrict the publishing of its source code, freedom to consume the energy citizens purchase and/or produce how they want, neutral access to Internet, etc.). These kind of measures are political suicide in Western democracies, hence why politicians are seen as powerless against Bitcoin in these places, why they "let" this market grow and why they just setup ways to tax it as best as they can (at the borders between fiat and crypto). In places where preserving such freedoms is not a burden for governments you already see bans flourish when it is convenient for the people in power... but even then, it just marginally stops the actual access to Bitcoin as a network participant (which is not limited to mining). It doesn't actually kills Bitcoin. But everyone knows that if governments around the world decided to install massive censorship, invade the privacy of all their citizen, and magically all were in agreement to do so at the same time, Bitcoin wouldn't survive... if you think this is a possible scenario, is Bitcoin really the thing your should worry about?

CamperBob2 2y ago
These kind of measures are political suicide in Western democracies CSAM has entered the chat. ("Why do you support child abuse, Senator?")
- jiggawatts 2y ago
  The fastest way to kill Bitcoin would be to use it to publish the torrent hashes of child porn. Since it is nearly impossible to erase information from the chain, this “taint” is forever. Any participant node processing the chain will be “distributing child pornography.” That’s thoroughly illegal pretty much everywhere. Worse, it has a very powerful social stigma against it, which means you can’t even fight it in court.
  - throw101010 2y ago
    It has already been done [1], the issue is that Bitcoin is not really made for large files storage, so you'd store hashes to a torrent as you suggested or you'd split parts of the illegal content that then would require some other protocol be recomposed... Historically that has not been enough to cause legal trouble for network participants, another reason is that this data can also be deleted from your own node once you are made aware of it. It's been an anti-Bitcoin talking point for many years, nobody really cares about it. [1] https://blockchain.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/ https://blockchain.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/
sgt101 2y ago
The one fundamental that you have to understand about all government is that it is essentially a monopoly on violence. That monopoly enables things like taxation and broad social consensus and consent. But, it's there, and if Bitcoin began to chip away at the core of any state you can expect it to be used. Some people say that they can't take my gold. Some people say that they can't take my guns. But history says that they can and will and have.
- throw101010 2y ago
  Sure, but as I said, if they come after Bitcoin, it's a good time to worry about a lot of freedoms your governments are supposed to protect/afford you... it could be seen as the canary in the mine in that regard.
- justinclift 2y ago
  > But history says that they can and will and have. Indeed. The ability and willingness to use violence is how most of governments seem to have gotten their start(s).
ForHackernews 2y ago
China banned bitcoin mining and now there's hardly any bitcoin mining in China. Maybe the legal wrangling would be more involved in western countries, but I can't see why enforcement would be any harder. ISPs already block bittorrent and blacklist domains. They could easily block bitcoin, too.
- throw101010 2y ago
  > Maybe the legal wrangling would be more involved in western countries, but I can't see why enforcement would be any harder. For the USA, computer source code is considered speech protected by the First Amendment, there's not much "legal wrangling" you can do around this when it has been confirmed by the Supreme Court. Short of drastically restricting this right/freedom... don't think the US population would welcome this "wrangling" with open arms. You're also missing the point I've made, China's ban and various blocklists have not killed Bitcoin, it is still used a lot in China these days, it's simply illegal to mine it... for now, they've gone anti to pro Bitcoin many times over the years.
- RustyRussell 2y ago
  Actually, it's estimated that about a quarter of mining is in China. The largest players moved, the rest are lying low, so it's hard to get exact numbers.

CamperBob2 2y ago

These kind of measures are political suicide in Western democracies CSAM has entered the chat. ("Why do you support child abuse, Senator?")

jiggawatts 2y ago
The fastest way to kill Bitcoin would be to use it to publish the torrent hashes of child porn. Since it is nearly impossible to erase information from the chain, this “taint” is forever. Any participant node processing the chain will be “distributing child pornography.” That’s thoroughly illegal pretty much everywhere. Worse, it has a very powerful social stigma against it, which means you can’t even fight it in court.
- throw101010 2y ago
  It has already been done [1], the issue is that Bitcoin is not really made for large files storage, so you'd store hashes to a torrent as you suggested or you'd split parts of the illegal content that then would require some other protocol be recomposed... Historically that has not been enough to cause legal trouble for network participants, another reason is that this data can also be deleted from your own node once you are made aware of it. It's been an anti-Bitcoin talking point for many years, nobody really cares about it. [1] https://blockchain.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/ https://blockchain.comsys.rwth-aachen.de/

sgt101 2y ago

The one fundamental that you have to understand about all government is that it is essentially a monopoly on violence. That monopoly enables things like taxation and broad social consensus and consent. But, it's there, and if Bitcoin began to chip away at the core of any state you can expect it to be used. Some people say that they can't take my gold. Some people say that they can't take my guns. But history says that they can and will and have.

throw101010 2y ago
Sure, but as I said, if they come after Bitcoin, it's a good time to worry about a lot of freedoms your governments are supposed to protect/afford you... it could be seen as the canary in the mine in that regard.
justinclift 2y ago
> But history says that they can and will and have. Indeed. The ability and willingness to use violence is how most of governments seem to have gotten their start(s).

ForHackernews 2y ago

China banned bitcoin mining and now there's hardly any bitcoin mining in China. Maybe the legal wrangling would be more involved in western countries, but I can't see why enforcement would be any harder. ISPs already block bittorrent and blacklist domains. They could easily block bitcoin, too.

throw101010 2y ago
> Maybe the legal wrangling would be more involved in western countries, but I can't see why enforcement would be any harder. For the USA, computer source code is considered speech protected by the First Amendment, there's not much "legal wrangling" you can do around this when it has been confirmed by the Supreme Court. Short of drastically restricting this right/freedom... don't think the US population would welcome this "wrangling" with open arms. You're also missing the point I've made, China's ban and various blocklists have not killed Bitcoin, it is still used a lot in China these days, it's simply illegal to mine it... for now, they've gone anti to pro Bitcoin many times over the years.
RustyRussell 2y ago
Actually, it's estimated that about a quarter of mining is in China. The largest players moved, the rest are lying low, so it's hard to get exact numbers.