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> Say you major in comp sci (or some other high-paying field) but shortly after graduation something happens which prevents you from working in the field. Sucks

> Say you major in comp sci (or some other high-paying field) but shortly after graduation something happens which prevents you from working in the field. Sucks to be you. That's why the article's saying you should be able to declare bankruptcy. > And likewise it sets up universities to, as you say, "cut courses with poor returns." Like for example "teaching", because school teacher pay is crap, so it has a poor ROI. Teaching is relatively well paid and there are huge numbers of jobs. It's highly likely that a teacher could repay loans. There are plenty of degrees far less capable of providing employment than teaching.

Cyph0n 2y ago
Teaching as in school teachers? In the US? Not even close to being well paid.
magnoliakobus 2y ago
I think most people would agree with me in saying the European model sounds pretty swell compared to forcing people into declaring bankruptcy because of economic/personal factors potentially out of their control, while also inserting an incredible amount of volatility into the entire university system that would make long term institutional planning much less possible.
- kraussvonespy 2y ago
  And in the US, bankruptcy doesn't help with the student debt, so if the majority of your debt is student loans, there's really nothing that can be done other than die to get rid of them. And I'm 100% certain that if the student loan - industrial complex could saddle relatives and kids with that debt after death, they'd sure go after that too.
- luckylion 2y ago
  Many will agree, but that's part of the reason why the US has a 50% higher GDP with 30% lower population. Focusing on well-beeing, fun and experience comes at a price.
  - GreenWatermelon 2y ago
    GDP that's concentrated in the top few % of the population. The fact that despite 50% higher GPD and 30% less population there's still rampant homelessness is damning enough.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      > The fact that despite 50% higher GPD and 30% less population there's still rampant homelessness is damning enough. You can't solve all of that through GDP. There are social and drug and mental health issues that seem to not present to nearly the same extent.
  - dahart 2y ago
    The U.S. GDP per capita is behind Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, and these countries are known for low cost and excellent education. What do you mean about 30% lower population? How is that relevant? You’re quoting a per-capita stat, the population was already factored out. And you’re comparing a single country to 27 countries. Makes zero sense.
- BeetleB 2y ago
  Be careful what you wish for. The majority of my fellow engineering graduates would not have gotten an engineering degree in Germany. They would have flunked the first year - a weed out year - and then been forced into a technical diploma program and not be allowed to call themselves engineers. My friend who went to the German school said they have a target of flunking half the students that first year. Funds are limited and shape how many can graduate.
chrisweekly 2y ago
> "Teaching is relatively well paid" Compared to what? In the US, teachers are absolutely underpaid relative to their similarly-educated and -skilled peers in other professions.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- schaefer 2y ago
  You forgot to mention teachers in the US are also overworked.
  - chrisweekly 2y ago
    Sure -- though that's almost just two ways of describing the same thing. If teachers were paid $500k, few would describe them as overworked, and if they only had to work 4-hour days (with current salaries and benefits), they might be fairly compensated.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  Compared to degrees that could struggle on average to pay back a loan, e.g. a degree in the humanities.
  - chrisweekly 2y ago
    Not to be argumentative (really ), but that's borderline nonsensical; you're comparing a profession to a broad category of educational attainment. Teachers typically have a degree in the humanities. What other profession is so commonly viewed as underpaid?

Cyph0n 2y ago

Teaching as in school teachers? In the US? Not even close to being well paid.

magnoliakobus 2y ago

I think most people would agree with me in saying the European model sounds pretty swell compared to forcing people into declaring bankruptcy because of economic/personal factors potentially out of their control, while also inserting an incredible amount of volatility into the entire university system that would make long term institutional planning much less possible.

kraussvonespy 2y ago
And in the US, bankruptcy doesn't help with the student debt, so if the majority of your debt is student loans, there's really nothing that can be done other than die to get rid of them. And I'm 100% certain that if the student loan - industrial complex could saddle relatives and kids with that debt after death, they'd sure go after that too.
luckylion 2y ago
Many will agree, but that's part of the reason why the US has a 50% higher GDP with 30% lower population. Focusing on well-beeing, fun and experience comes at a price.
- GreenWatermelon 2y ago
  GDP that's concentrated in the top few % of the population. The fact that despite 50% higher GPD and 30% less population there's still rampant homelessness is damning enough.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    > The fact that despite 50% higher GPD and 30% less population there's still rampant homelessness is damning enough. You can't solve all of that through GDP. There are social and drug and mental health issues that seem to not present to nearly the same extent.
- dahart 2y ago
  The U.S. GDP per capita is behind Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, and these countries are known for low cost and excellent education. What do you mean about 30% lower population? How is that relevant? You’re quoting a per-capita stat, the population was already factored out. And you’re comparing a single country to 27 countries. Makes zero sense.
BeetleB 2y ago
Be careful what you wish for. The majority of my fellow engineering graduates would not have gotten an engineering degree in Germany. They would have flunked the first year - a weed out year - and then been forced into a technical diploma program and not be allowed to call themselves engineers. My friend who went to the German school said they have a target of flunking half the students that first year. Funds are limited and shape how many can graduate.

chrisweekly 2y ago

> "Teaching is relatively well paid" Compared to what? In the US, teachers are absolutely underpaid relative to their similarly-educated and -skilled peers in other professions.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
schaefer 2y ago
You forgot to mention teachers in the US are also overworked.
- chrisweekly 2y ago
  Sure -- though that's almost just two ways of describing the same thing. If teachers were paid $500k, few would describe them as overworked, and if they only had to work 4-hour days (with current salaries and benefits), they might be fairly compensated.
robertlagrant 2y ago
Compared to degrees that could struggle on average to pay back a loan, e.g. a degree in the humanities.
- chrisweekly 2y ago
  Not to be argumentative (really ), but that's borderline nonsensical; you're comparing a profession to a broad category of educational attainment. Teachers typically have a degree in the humanities. What other profession is so commonly viewed as underpaid?