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As I watch people around me reach their senior years, it increasingly seems like life is "use it or lose it" with your body and brain function. If you really wa

As I watch people around me reach their senior years, it increasingly seems like life is "use it or lose it" with your body and brain function. If you really want to extend your "healthspan" it seems the correct solution is to do full-body work-outs a lot, eat a really clean diet, avoid drugs, and keep using your brain actively into your 80's and 90's.

jajko 2y ago
Well yes, but you need to be smart about it, just like about everything else in life. People read full body workout and start some super intense training regimen which for some may be great, and for others it may be too much. Instead its more like some gardening efforts - every day a bit, not too much. My late grandparents are an example - obviously no smoking and absolute minimum alcohol and 0 other drugs ever, regular good sleep, and garden (plus a bit of nature which was just walks or foraging mushrooms). Understanding how body degenerates with age and injuries, especially joints and connective tissue. Workouts great for 20 years old are sometimes pretty bad for 40+. Don't stress heart too much, just enough, for long periods. Plenty of weightlifters who have messed up their shoulders, spines, knees etc. although at their peak they lifted impressive weights and looked accordingly. Guess what, this adds 0 in longevity, whatever effect was there is 100% gone in 5-10 years from all tissues and bones as cells fully renew, and messing up core of your movement can easily negatively impair lifespan.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  It does appear from my anecdata that large amounts of mild exercise actually seem to be better, like yoga, golf, mild hikes, or yard work/gardening. Manual labor of various kinds fits this pattern, too.
eightysixfour 2y ago
> If you really want to extend your "healthspan" it seems the correct solution is to do full-body work-outs a lot, eat a really clean diet, avoid drugs, and keep using your brain actively into your 80's and 90's. All of the folks in my family who lives to their late 90s with a long “healthspan” drank or smoked excessively. The generation after them, their children, who did are either dead or on their way to an early grave. I haven’t really been able to figure that one out.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  I'll give you my theory: Modern processed foods.
- lolinder 2y ago
  One possibility is survivorship bias. You never met the smokers and heavy drinkers from the first generation who died young, but you did meet those who got lucky on their dice rolls. In the generation after them you knew both groups and the actual survivorship ratios become more apparent. Other aspects of our modern environment are probably playing a role, too, of course.
- gerad 2y ago
  Blame stress
  - eightysixfour 2y ago
    Yes, the alcoholic from their 20s to 80s (approx 1/2 a plastic bottle of vodka a day) was one of the least stressed people in the family. They were also the healthiest in their 90s compared to the smokers.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  I wonder if the standards for “drinking excessively” could have changed over time, or the way we drink could have changed? Or possibly, say, people in the silent generation (just for example) might have mostly just had alcohol and cigarettes, while those in the boomer and gen-x generation might have also had a higher chance to find their way to party drugs. Just a hypothetical of course, I obviously know nothing at all about your family!
- xhkkffbf 2y ago
  Several of my friends who died in COVID heart attacks were super fit and very careful with eating. One was a pretty militant vegan. Yet they died in their 40s and 50s.
  - stonethrowaway 2y ago
Tade0 2y ago
A major component of that for my grandparents is that they live four floors up without an elevator. Interestingly, their next door neighbour is also still among us and the general pattern was that people in that block would start passing away starting from the lowest floors. It's a small thing, but I can see how it works - living on the third floor I see that my joints are better lubricated than back when I was living on the ground floor, so taking long walks is also no issue.
- IIAOPSW 2y ago
  With respect to four floor walkup, by this logic, excepting other factors which might negate it, you would expect there to be a preponderance of exceptionally aged people in New York.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Not if the benefits of stairs are outweighed by the dangers of pollution (both air and noise).
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    It appears that living in New York shortens your lifespan quite significantly (possibly due to air pollution). Income-adjusted, New Yorkers die a few years too young, and there is a higher incidence of cancer than other places. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/vs/2015sum.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/vs/2015sum.pdf
    - hooverd 2y ago
      Too many BECs?
    - macNchz 2y ago
      That document doesn’t seem to compare things to national rates, but to my knowledge the NYC life expectancy is above NY state’s, which itself is significantly above the national average. The densest parts of Manhattan, which also have some of the most air pollution (but high incomes) have the highest life expectancies. With a brief googling it looks like cancer incidence is in line with national averages, but mortality is lower. Significant racial and socioeconomic disparities impact both averages.
DrBazza 2y ago
My grandmother would walk 4-5 miles to visit us, well into her 80s, and the route included a rather substantial hill. She lived into her 90s. Similarly, my grandfather was docker, and then a very active gardener walking to his allotment a few times day, a good few miles round-trip, and lived into his 90s as well. They were all what might be 'underweight' by the BMI measurements these days. War diets, perhaps, but they were both healthy and fit. Not sure I buy the restricted diet idea for longevity though.
pessimizer 2y ago
> do full-body work-outs a lot, eat a really clean diet, avoid drugs Could it be that older people were less likely to be able to avoid physical work (even their chores were far more of a workout), were relatively more religious and conservative than current generations, and grew up with fewer processed foods and more home cooking by stay-at-home moms? What I mean by this is are you just describing people who were born in the 1930s? The fact that the ones that are left are mostly typical would be expected. > keep using your brain actively into your 80's and 90's. This could be seen as a symptom of aging well, rather than a cause. People whose brains don't work well aren't studied as examples of aging well. The person I know who most fits this description is my dad, he had a swimmer's body in his 60s, worked out every morning since high school, has kept a dead center BMI his entire life, has never done a drug and probably only had a sip or two of beer, always had a gym guy diet that has gradually become more vegan, and was a math major and computer programmer, plays chess etc.. He's totally falling apart in his late 70s and becoming very frail. Seems like he's having nerve and neurological issues, and having problems with his connective tissue and with arthritis in his hands and knees. I don't know how you eat, work out, and think yourself into avoiding that. Half of his joint problems are caused from having been athletic, just like my super-athletic Army grandpa, whose knees would bend backwards for the last years of his life from football when he was young. Protestantism isn't a law of nature. You aren't automatically rewarded for sacrifice and suffering, at least while you're alive.
- brnt 2y ago
  It's always funny how people are eager to cite the good examples in their life, but totally forget the family that died early. Just walk into any sort of care facility for the elderly to understand that bias.
  - stonethrowaway 2y ago
    If more people did this maybe everyone could tone it down a bit and go back to, “we don’t quite yet know” rather than having every one of these threads filled with “survivorship bias!!” nonsense.
huntertwo 2y ago
Cocaine is a cardiovascular workout in of itself.
- CRConrad 2y ago
  Oh wow, finally an exercise regimen for us lazy people!
fakedang 2y ago
Very true. My paternal grandfather lived well into his nineties, even as a smoker, as he was very active well into his 80s. Even when he touched 90, he could still pretty much walk around in his forest land to explore his property. On the other hand, my paternal grandmother had a severe sweet tooth, and passed away from a heart condition. Her diabetes kept her very inactive for the most part, but even at 80, she could do a LOT of activities independently with little help. Passed away at 84. My maternal grandfather was very active in his 70s, but he became sedentary and reclusive (partly because of my caretaker uncle who is an asshole, coupled with messy infamily fighting). Passed away at 82, after his second(!) heart attack. My maternal grandmother is still alive and kicking ass, travelling the world over. Again, asshole uncle causes her a lot of tension , but her daughters have tried to keep her separated from him, so stress levels are low. For the record, she could travel from India to the US alone at her age. Use it or lose it.
canjobear 2y ago
Does their activity support healthiness, or does their healthiness support activity?
jimmydddd 2y ago
Re: using your brain -- I've noticed that a lot of well-known US television news commentators seem to work in some capacity and be sharp well into their 80's. It seems like the fact that they are constantly plugged into current events keeps them going.

jajko 2y ago

Well yes, but you need to be smart about it, just like about everything else in life. People read full body workout and start some super intense training regimen which for some may be great, and for others it may be too much. Instead its more like some gardening efforts - every day a bit, not too much. My late grandparents are an example - obviously no smoking and absolute minimum alcohol and 0 other drugs ever, regular good sleep, and garden (plus a bit of nature which was just walks or foraging mushrooms). Understanding how body degenerates with age and injuries, especially joints and connective tissue. Workouts great for 20 years old are sometimes pretty bad for 40+. Don't stress heart too much, just enough, for long periods. Plenty of weightlifters who have messed up their shoulders, spines, knees etc. although at their peak they lifted impressive weights and looked accordingly. Guess what, this adds 0 in longevity, whatever effect was there is 100% gone in 5-10 years from all tissues and bones as cells fully renew, and messing up core of your movement can easily negatively impair lifespan.

pclmulqdq 2y ago
It does appear from my anecdata that large amounts of mild exercise actually seem to be better, like yoga, golf, mild hikes, or yard work/gardening. Manual labor of various kinds fits this pattern, too.

eightysixfour 2y ago

> If you really want to extend your "healthspan" it seems the correct solution is to do full-body work-outs a lot, eat a really clean diet, avoid drugs, and keep using your brain actively into your 80's and 90's. All of the folks in my family who lives to their late 90s with a long “healthspan” drank or smoked excessively. The generation after them, their children, who did are either dead or on their way to an early grave. I haven’t really been able to figure that one out.

pclmulqdq 2y ago
I'll give you my theory: Modern processed foods.
lolinder 2y ago
One possibility is survivorship bias. You never met the smokers and heavy drinkers from the first generation who died young, but you did meet those who got lucky on their dice rolls. In the generation after them you knew both groups and the actual survivorship ratios become more apparent. Other aspects of our modern environment are probably playing a role, too, of course.
gerad 2y ago
Blame stress
- eightysixfour 2y ago
  Yes, the alcoholic from their 20s to 80s (approx 1/2 a plastic bottle of vodka a day) was one of the least stressed people in the family. They were also the healthiest in their 90s compared to the smokers.
bee_rider 2y ago
I wonder if the standards for “drinking excessively” could have changed over time, or the way we drink could have changed? Or possibly, say, people in the silent generation (just for example) might have mostly just had alcohol and cigarettes, while those in the boomer and gen-x generation might have also had a higher chance to find their way to party drugs. Just a hypothetical of course, I obviously know nothing at all about your family!
xhkkffbf 2y ago
Several of my friends who died in COVID heart attacks were super fit and very careful with eating. One was a pretty militant vegan. Yet they died in their 40s and 50s.
- stonethrowaway 2y ago

Tade0 2y ago

A major component of that for my grandparents is that they live four floors up without an elevator. Interestingly, their next door neighbour is also still among us and the general pattern was that people in that block would start passing away starting from the lowest floors. It's a small thing, but I can see how it works - living on the third floor I see that my joints are better lubricated than back when I was living on the ground floor, so taking long walks is also no issue.

IIAOPSW 2y ago
With respect to four floor walkup, by this logic, excepting other factors which might negate it, you would expect there to be a preponderance of exceptionally aged people in New York.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Not if the benefits of stairs are outweighed by the dangers of pollution (both air and noise).
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  It appears that living in New York shortens your lifespan quite significantly (possibly due to air pollution). Income-adjusted, New Yorkers die a few years too young, and there is a higher incidence of cancer than other places. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/vs/2015sum.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/vs/2015sum.pdf
  - hooverd 2y ago
    Too many BECs?
  - macNchz 2y ago
    That document doesn’t seem to compare things to national rates, but to my knowledge the NYC life expectancy is above NY state’s, which itself is significantly above the national average. The densest parts of Manhattan, which also have some of the most air pollution (but high incomes) have the highest life expectancies. With a brief googling it looks like cancer incidence is in line with national averages, but mortality is lower. Significant racial and socioeconomic disparities impact both averages.

DrBazza 2y ago

My grandmother would walk 4-5 miles to visit us, well into her 80s, and the route included a rather substantial hill. She lived into her 90s. Similarly, my grandfather was docker, and then a very active gardener walking to his allotment a few times day, a good few miles round-trip, and lived into his 90s as well. They were all what might be 'underweight' by the BMI measurements these days. War diets, perhaps, but they were both healthy and fit. Not sure I buy the restricted diet idea for longevity though.

pessimizer 2y ago

> do full-body work-outs a lot, eat a really clean diet, avoid drugs Could it be that older people were less likely to be able to avoid physical work (even their chores were far more of a workout), were relatively more religious and conservative than current generations, and grew up with fewer processed foods and more home cooking by stay-at-home moms? What I mean by this is are you just describing people who were born in the 1930s? The fact that the ones that are left are mostly typical would be expected. > keep using your brain actively into your 80's and 90's. This could be seen as a symptom of aging well, rather than a cause. People whose brains don't work well aren't studied as examples of aging well. The person I know who most fits this description is my dad, he had a swimmer's body in his 60s, worked out every morning since high school, has kept a dead center BMI his entire life, has never done a drug and probably only had a sip or two of beer, always had a gym guy diet that has gradually become more vegan, and was a math major and computer programmer, plays chess etc.. He's totally falling apart in his late 70s and becoming very frail. Seems like he's having nerve and neurological issues, and having problems with his connective tissue and with arthritis in his hands and knees. I don't know how you eat, work out, and think yourself into avoiding that. Half of his joint problems are caused from having been athletic, just like my super-athletic Army grandpa, whose knees would bend backwards for the last years of his life from football when he was young. Protestantism isn't a law of nature. You aren't automatically rewarded for sacrifice and suffering, at least while you're alive.

brnt 2y ago
It's always funny how people are eager to cite the good examples in their life, but totally forget the family that died early. Just walk into any sort of care facility for the elderly to understand that bias.
- stonethrowaway 2y ago
  If more people did this maybe everyone could tone it down a bit and go back to, “we don’t quite yet know” rather than having every one of these threads filled with “survivorship bias!!” nonsense.

huntertwo 2y ago

Cocaine is a cardiovascular workout in of itself.

CRConrad 2y ago
Oh wow, finally an exercise regimen for us lazy people!

fakedang 2y ago

Very true. My paternal grandfather lived well into his nineties, even as a smoker, as he was very active well into his 80s. Even when he touched 90, he could still pretty much walk around in his forest land to explore his property. On the other hand, my paternal grandmother had a severe sweet tooth, and passed away from a heart condition. Her diabetes kept her very inactive for the most part, but even at 80, she could do a LOT of activities independently with little help. Passed away at 84. My maternal grandfather was very active in his 70s, but he became sedentary and reclusive (partly because of my caretaker uncle who is an asshole, coupled with messy infamily fighting). Passed away at 82, after his second(!) heart attack. My maternal grandmother is still alive and kicking ass, travelling the world over. Again, asshole uncle causes her a lot of tension , but her daughters have tried to keep her separated from him, so stress levels are low. For the record, she could travel from India to the US alone at her age. Use it or lose it.

canjobear 2y ago

Does their activity support healthiness, or does their healthiness support activity?

jimmydddd 2y ago

Re: using your brain -- I've noticed that a lot of well-known US television news commentators seem to work in some capacity and be sharp well into their 80's. It seems like the fact that they are constantly plugged into current events keeps them going.