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In researching for my own PhD I was surprised to find that there was no focused academic treatment of hypermedia controls. For example, Fielding mentions them o

In researching for my own PhD I was surprised to find that there was no focused academic treatment of hypermedia controls. For example, Fielding mentions them only in passing in the introduction of his thesis. As this concept was a key motivating idea, leading both intercoolerjs/htmx and hyperview I felt a formal definition that went beyond the web was a useful contribution, and peers in the hypermedia community agreed. I hope that this definition and generalization leads to further advancement in hypermedia systems such as the web.

ivan_gammel 2y ago
I don’t think this is useful. It actually seems to be wrong. Hypermedia is the way to organize content for consumption in non-linear way. Hypermedia systems are broader concept than client-server (single document or program can be a hypermedia system). Formal definition can look like this: given a set of multimedia elements (text, audio, video, etc) and possible transitions between them, this set can be defined as hypermedia if there exist elements which can be reached from some entry element via multiple different transition paths. A hypermedia system then is such system that allows users to consume hypermedia content by presenting multimedia elements and enabling users to transition between them. Note that this definition doesn’t mention networks or protocols: collection of HTML pages, images, videos etc on local hard drive is still a hypermedia system despite that no network is involved. Compared to a book or ordinary text document the core and the most important property of such system is that possible transitions are predetermined: designer of the system defines the possible ways to consume the content, while the book reader is free to start reading at any page. Networks, protocols, HTML, UI are less interesting implementation features at this stage. This definition opens many interesting opportunities to talk about before you go into technical details. This is what I would expect from such paper, not school-level talks about links and buttons.
- recursivedoubts 2y ago
  I encourage you to submit a paper for next year’s ACM hypertext conference presenting your ideas.
- jph00 2y ago
  Since your attempt at improving the definition of hypermedia controls fails to actually mention hypermedia controls at all, I’m going to suggest that it is not in fact an improved definition.
- code_department 2y ago
  You seem to have missed the point of the paper, since your comment here is presenting a definition of hypermedia as an alternative to the given definition of hypermedia controls. Defining hypermedia in general and discussing other aspects of it is not relevant to the scope of the paper. It honestly doesn't make any sense to complain that an academic paper specifically on hypermedia controls doesn't define and comprehensively discuss hypermedia as a whole, unless you have mistaken the purpose of the paper as being to define hypermedia as a whole. Your criticism of the definition of hypermedia and hypermedia systems might make more sense if it were directed at Carson Gross' book, Hypermedia Systems. Have you read it?
- yawaramin 2y ago
  jph00 helpfully quoted the paper's definition of hypermedia for us: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41538587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41538587 > We find the "functional definition" at Definition 4.1: "A hypermedia control is an element that responds to an event trigger by issuing a type of request to a URL and placing the response at some position within the user agents viewport." You said: > Note that this definition doesn’t mention networks or protocols Neither does the given definition of hypermedia controls in the paper. So it seems that your respective definitions are perfectly compatible.

ivan_gammel 2y ago

I don’t think this is useful. It actually seems to be wrong. Hypermedia is the way to organize content for consumption in non-linear way. Hypermedia systems are broader concept than client-server (single document or program can be a hypermedia system). Formal definition can look like this: given a set of multimedia elements (text, audio, video, etc) and possible transitions between them, this set can be defined as hypermedia if there exist elements which can be reached from some entry element via multiple different transition paths. A hypermedia system then is such system that allows users to consume hypermedia content by presenting multimedia elements and enabling users to transition between them. Note that this definition doesn’t mention networks or protocols: collection of HTML pages, images, videos etc on local hard drive is still a hypermedia system despite that no network is involved. Compared to a book or ordinary text document the core and the most important property of such system is that possible transitions are predetermined: designer of the system defines the possible ways to consume the content, while the book reader is free to start reading at any page. Networks, protocols, HTML, UI are less interesting implementation features at this stage. This definition opens many interesting opportunities to talk about before you go into technical details. This is what I would expect from such paper, not school-level talks about links and buttons.

recursivedoubts 2y ago
I encourage you to submit a paper for next year’s ACM hypertext conference presenting your ideas.
jph00 2y ago
Since your attempt at improving the definition of hypermedia controls fails to actually mention hypermedia controls at all, I’m going to suggest that it is not in fact an improved definition.
code_department 2y ago
You seem to have missed the point of the paper, since your comment here is presenting a definition of hypermedia as an alternative to the given definition of hypermedia controls. Defining hypermedia in general and discussing other aspects of it is not relevant to the scope of the paper. It honestly doesn't make any sense to complain that an academic paper specifically on hypermedia controls doesn't define and comprehensively discuss hypermedia as a whole, unless you have mistaken the purpose of the paper as being to define hypermedia as a whole. Your criticism of the definition of hypermedia and hypermedia systems might make more sense if it were directed at Carson Gross' book, Hypermedia Systems. Have you read it?
yawaramin 2y ago
jph00 helpfully quoted the paper's definition of hypermedia for us: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41538587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41538587 > We find the "functional definition" at Definition 4.1: "A hypermedia control is an element that responds to an event trigger by issuing a type of request to a URL and placing the response at some position within the user agents viewport." You said: > Note that this definition doesn’t mention networks or protocols Neither does the given definition of hypermedia controls in the paper. So it seems that your respective definitions are perfectly compatible.