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404 Media mentioned on their podcast that pretty much every cybercrime investigation they do leads back to Telegram. Most of Telegram isn't even encrypted anywa

by janice1999 2y ago

404 Media mentioned on their podcast that pretty much every cybercrime investigation they do leads back to Telegram. Most of Telegram isn't even encrypted anyway. There's blatantly illegal groups operating in the open. It was inevitable that some prosecutor would go after them when they didn't even do the most basic moderation.

gjsman-1000 2y ago
In which case, you have to ask: 1. If Telegram is not encrypted; 2. And criminals are pretty open; 3. Isn't that a preferable outcome... 4. To criminalizing Telegram and causing the criminals to move to Matrix or Signal... 5. Which is encrypted, unable to be moderated, and just makes prosecutor's lives harder? 6. In which case, we've criminalized a service in the name of safety, stamped on freedoms, and only made the problem worse?
- jfengel 2y ago
  I suppose it depends on why they are sticking with Telegram despite more private alternatives. Why don't they go there now?
  - r00fus 2y ago
    safety in numbers and network effect?
- tptacek 2y ago
  If you are aware of and have direct access to information vital to stopping child sex trafficking, you must share it when legitimate authorities request it. There's no message board syllogism that is going to get you around that, which Durov is finding out.
  - bilbo0s 2y ago
    Yep. This is the issue. People think freedom of speech, association and expression means I get rights to say whatever I want and no one should be able to treat me differently. Well, not exactly. Firstly it only applies to government not being able to stop you from speaking. Secondly, it in no way precludes the government from taking necessary actions to stop what you're speaking about. So these pedophiles out here can talk about their, "hobby", to their hearts' content. But government can and should use that information to investigate, interdict and prosecute any illegal activities in which they are involved.
    - tptacek 2y ago
      For what it's worth I don't think this was a crackdown on people talking about child sexual abuse. Real CSAM is nightmare fuel, not a 4chan thread.

gjsman-1000 2y ago

In which case, you have to ask: 1. If Telegram is not encrypted; 2. And criminals are pretty open; 3. Isn't that a preferable outcome... 4. To criminalizing Telegram and causing the criminals to move to Matrix or Signal... 5. Which is encrypted, unable to be moderated, and just makes prosecutor's lives harder? 6. In which case, we've criminalized a service in the name of safety, stamped on freedoms, and only made the problem worse?

jfengel 2y ago
I suppose it depends on why they are sticking with Telegram despite more private alternatives. Why don't they go there now?
- r00fus 2y ago
  safety in numbers and network effect?
tptacek 2y ago
If you are aware of and have direct access to information vital to stopping child sex trafficking, you must share it when legitimate authorities request it. There's no message board syllogism that is going to get you around that, which Durov is finding out.
- bilbo0s 2y ago
  Yep. This is the issue. People think freedom of speech, association and expression means I get rights to say whatever I want and no one should be able to treat me differently. Well, not exactly. Firstly it only applies to government not being able to stop you from speaking. Secondly, it in no way precludes the government from taking necessary actions to stop what you're speaking about. So these pedophiles out here can talk about their, "hobby", to their hearts' content. But government can and should use that information to investigate, interdict and prosecute any illegal activities in which they are involved.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    For what it's worth I don't think this was a crackdown on people talking about child sexual abuse. Real CSAM is nightmare fuel, not a 4chan thread.