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> there's a pretty big difference between "Next.js is too bloated, you should use HTMX" and "so and so group of people are all _ and they should all be

> there's a pretty big difference between "Next.js is too bloated, you should use HTMX" and "so and so group of people are all _____ and they should all be ________, and oh, your mom sucks". Is there? Perhaps the trouble here is that your examples are too far apart to recognize how they compare? What if Facebook, instead, said "Fat workers are too bloated, you should hire skinny workers"? Or if HN said "so and so projects are all ____ and they should all be ____, and oh, your vacuum doesn't suck". I see no practical difference. It seems the only difference is that Facebook tends to talk about people, HN about tech. But that's not a significant distinction – aside from where your interests lie. Certainly tech-minded folks often find people to be uninteresting.

solardev 2y ago
I think it's just the different degree of emotional attachment people to have to these topics. Yeah, people can get a bit worked up about how annoying JS development has become, but not quite to the same level as the major headlines of the day about the latest Middle East controversy/Soviet threat/identity politics thing. Oh, and my vacuum does suck just fine, thank you very much.
- randomdata 2y ago
  > not quite to the same level as the major headlines of the day about the latest Middle East controversy/Soviet threat/identity politics thing. Why do you say that? I share in the tech-minded proclivity towards not having much interest in people, so I admit to being largely out of the loop, but what is there to be worked up about where you wouldn't equally get worked up around some tech-based topic? It just sounds boring an uninteresting to me. When I have encountered discussions about those topics, all I have is some laughter at how silly the people sound. Just like I'm sure how the "Next.js is awful" conversations sound to the metaphorical grandma.
  - solardev 2y ago
    You, yourself, might just be different/lucky then :) Or you could just be typical here. The average HN user is probably not representative of the average person in the overall population. It's a self-selecting crowd of nerds, many of whom aren't all that interested in more worldly topics. (Nothing wrong with that, mind you. It's part of the reason I'm here and not on mainstream social media.) But out in the greater society, people get all worked up about those other topics, and will go protest in the streets, blockade representatives' houses, send death threats, rage endlessly online, attempt assassinations, go on shooting sprees, etc. Those things are usually triggered by some emotional attachment to some tribal identity and anger towards some out-group. In a monoculture like this, we're mostly peers. Yeah, we might disagree about some particular things, but there's less of an "us vs them" mindset as you see politics, geopolitics, values-based communities, etc. Discussions of technical merit, even when heated, thankfully don't reach those emotional heights quite as often. In my experience, at least...
    - randomdata 2y ago
      > But out in the greater society, people get all worked up about those other topics I understand that. Believe me, I can definitely get worked up about Next.js, if you really want to go there...! It is in no way surprising that people interested in people can end up in the same place around topics related to people. > In my experience, at least... But the underscore here is that your experience is based on where your interests (perhaps not the perfect word to describe this, but it's what I got) lie. If you have a greater interest in people, you're going to feel more strongly about it. I'm not bothered by it at all. But, by the same token, what is to say that I don't feel more strongly towards technical controversy than you do?
      - solardev 2y ago
        You very well might! No algorithm is perfect, and no moderation system will get it right every time. But I hope your experience on HN is still a net positive.
        randomdata 2y ago
squigz 2y ago
> Is there? The difference is that talking about a framework with passion doesn't generally end up with severe real world consequences for other people. The difference between tech and people is that people are... people. They have lives, feelings, all those fun human things. Passionately talking about how X group of people should die (or <insert rhetoric of your choice>) is quite different than passionately talking about how Y framework is the worst thing programmers have ever concocted. Generally the latter won't end up with someone getting stabbed. (Generally...) > What if Facebook, instead, said "Fat workers are too bloated, you should hire skinny workers"? Or if HN said "so and so projects are all ____ and they should all be ____, and oh, your vacuum doesn't suck". I think this is a terribly unfair switcharoo to make. Let's fill in the blanks for that second quote. > "so and so group of people are all inhuman and they should all be killed, and oh, your mom sucks" > "so and so projects are all terrible and they should all be deleted, and oh, your vacuum doesn't suck"
- randomdata 2y ago
  > Generally the latter won't end up with someone getting stabbed. A technology may not be literally stabbed, but I think it is fair to say that it very well may get stabbed metaphorically. It may even lead to the complete demise of the technology. Passionately calling for the death of Next.js isn't really any different than calling for the death of a person, other than you may perceive it as being different if you hold people more dear than technology. But, in that case, that's just your arbitrary opinion that means nothing to anything other than you. There are no doubt some who would be more concerned about the loss of Next.js (bad example; nobody would miss Next.js, but you get the idea) than the loss of a person, which is equally valid. The true arbiter of truth, the universe, certainly doesn't have greater feelings towards one than the other.
  - squigz 2y ago
    > Passionately calling for the death of Next.js isn't really any different than calling for the death of a person I love these HN takes.
    - 2y ago

> there's a pretty big difference between "Next.js is too bloated, you should use HTMX" and "so and so group of people are all _____ and they should all be ____

solardev 2y ago

I think it's just the different degree of emotional attachment people to have to these topics. Yeah, people can get a bit worked up about how annoying JS development has become, but not quite to the same level as the major headlines of the day about the latest Middle East controversy/Soviet threat/identity politics thing. Oh, and my vacuum does suck just fine, thank you very much.

randomdata 2y ago
> not quite to the same level as the major headlines of the day about the latest Middle East controversy/Soviet threat/identity politics thing. Why do you say that? I share in the tech-minded proclivity towards not having much interest in people, so I admit to being largely out of the loop, but what is there to be worked up about where you wouldn't equally get worked up around some tech-based topic? It just sounds boring an uninteresting to me. When I have encountered discussions about those topics, all I have is some laughter at how silly the people sound. Just like I'm sure how the "Next.js is awful" conversations sound to the metaphorical grandma.
- solardev 2y ago
  You, yourself, might just be different/lucky then :) Or you could just be typical here. The average HN user is probably not representative of the average person in the overall population. It's a self-selecting crowd of nerds, many of whom aren't all that interested in more worldly topics. (Nothing wrong with that, mind you. It's part of the reason I'm here and not on mainstream social media.) But out in the greater society, people get all worked up about those other topics, and will go protest in the streets, blockade representatives' houses, send death threats, rage endlessly online, attempt assassinations, go on shooting sprees, etc. Those things are usually triggered by some emotional attachment to some tribal identity and anger towards some out-group. In a monoculture like this, we're mostly peers. Yeah, we might disagree about some particular things, but there's less of an "us vs them" mindset as you see politics, geopolitics, values-based communities, etc. Discussions of technical merit, even when heated, thankfully don't reach those emotional heights quite as often. In my experience, at least...
  - randomdata 2y ago
    > But out in the greater society, people get all worked up about those other topics I understand that. Believe me, I can definitely get worked up about Next.js, if you really want to go there...! It is in no way surprising that people interested in people can end up in the same place around topics related to people. > In my experience, at least... But the underscore here is that your experience is based on where your interests (perhaps not the perfect word to describe this, but it's what I got) lie. If you have a greater interest in people, you're going to feel more strongly about it. I'm not bothered by it at all. But, by the same token, what is to say that I don't feel more strongly towards technical controversy than you do?
    - solardev 2y ago
      You very well might! No algorithm is perfect, and no moderation system will get it right every time. But I hope your experience on HN is still a net positive.
      - randomdata 2y ago

squigz 2y ago

> Is there? The difference is that talking about a framework with passion doesn't generally end up with severe real world consequences for other people. The difference between tech and people is that people are... people. They have lives, feelings, all those fun human things. Passionately talking about how X group of people should die (or <insert rhetoric of your choice>) is quite different than passionately talking about how Y framework is the worst thing programmers have ever concocted. Generally the latter won't end up with someone getting stabbed. (Generally...) > What if Facebook, instead, said "Fat workers are too bloated, you should hire skinny workers"? Or if HN said "so and so projects are all ____ and they should all be ____, and oh, your vacuum doesn't suck". I think this is a terribly unfair switcharoo to make. Let's fill in the blanks for that second quote. > "so and so group of people are all inhuman and they should all be killed, and oh, your mom sucks" > "so and so projects are all terrible and they should all be deleted, and oh, your vacuum doesn't suck"

randomdata 2y ago
> Generally the latter won't end up with someone getting stabbed. A technology may not be literally stabbed, but I think it is fair to say that it very well may get stabbed metaphorically. It may even lead to the complete demise of the technology. Passionately calling for the death of Next.js isn't really any different than calling for the death of a person, other than you may perceive it as being different if you hold people more dear than technology. But, in that case, that's just your arbitrary opinion that means nothing to anything other than you. There are no doubt some who would be more concerned about the loss of Next.js (bad example; nobody would miss Next.js, but you get the idea) than the loss of a person, which is equally valid. The true arbiter of truth, the universe, certainly doesn't have greater feelings towards one than the other.
- squigz 2y ago
  > Passionately calling for the death of Next.js isn't really any different than calling for the death of a person I love these HN takes.
  - 2y ago