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> how CD Project Red handled their successful Cyberpunk integration on Netflix as a model A reminder that Cyberpunk IP holder is Mike Pondsmith, not CD Project

> how CD Project Red handled their successful Cyberpunk integration on Netflix as a model A reminder that Cyberpunk IP holder is Mike Pondsmith, not CD Project.

MichaelZuo 2y ago
How can anyone hold IP over an abstract vibe?
- alwyn 2y ago
  Cyberpunk != cyberpunk, unfortunately. Cyberpunk 2077 is set in the Cyberpunk RPG universe that was created by Mike Pondsmith in 1988. It was named after the vibe without changing the name... Also a helpful article: https://www.polygon.com/reviews/2019/8/7/20756548/cyberpunk-red-jumpstart-kit-review-2077-prequel https://www.polygon.com/reviews/2019/8/7/20756548/cyberpunk-...
  - gs17 2y ago
    The vibe already overloaded the name of a different story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_(short_story) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_(short_story)
- ivmoreau 2y ago
  In this context is referring as Cyberpunk the role playing game, rather than just the genre. Cyberpunk 2077 has a setting based on the role playing board game (that’s where some characters come from, like Silverhand), and that setting is the original IP.
- JohnBooty 2y ago
  It's like how Microsoft owns Windows, but not windows.
  - mikrl 2y ago
    If you got a few of those motorized windows and hooked up a laptop running MS’ operating system to control them all, but only during certain times of day, there would be a window where your windows would be Windows windows.
    - helpfulclippy 2y ago
      You could set up a sweepstakes to install them with some complicated terms. Then you could explain to the local Vietnamese baker how the rules work — in other words, when does Nguyen Doughs win doze Windows windows?
- rhelz 2y ago
  // How can anyone hold IP over an abstract vibe? // Same way somebody can hold a patent to a cartoon drawing of a mouse. It's not any individual picture of Mickey Mouse which is (solely) copywrited; even if you draw Mickey Mouse from a different angle, or upside down, or turn it into a plush toy, or a popsicle.....or if you drew Mickey's twin brother, or even his younger brother who bore a family resemblance.... ...what do all those things have in common? If its not a "vibe"--a certain essence of Mickey-Mouseness.
  - amiga386 2y ago
    You can't hold a patent to a cartoon drawing of a mouse (that you're implying is the character Mickey Mouse) You can hold a design patent for the look of a tangible object - e.g. the rounded corners of an iPhone. You can also hold a design patent for particularly novel typefaces (fonts), the layout of a screen (e.g. like Norton Commander's twin directory listings on the left and right) and for computer icons, but that only covers them when they're displayed on screen. So you could get a patent for the stylised depiction of a mouse as an icon, but only in that context. If you wanted to flex ownership of a fictional character design, you get that by copyright, not patent. And the copyright law on derivative works is what protects that fiction character design from being copied or evolved by others. But it can't stop them parodying your design in order to ridicule it (specifically), so you don't have absolute control over it. This is why I don't like the use of the term "IP" or "intellecual property", as it completely muddies the waters as to what your actual rights are, and what limitations of "ownership" there are.
    - rhelz 2y ago
      // You can't hold a patent to a cartoon drawing of a mouse // No, cartoons are protected by copyright, not by patents. And if I'm not mistaken, the original comment which wondered if a general vibe could be intellectual property was talking about something which would be protected by copyright as well. But the same principle holds for patents. E.g. patenting an algorithm. It doesn't matter what language the algorithm is implemented in, whether you are running it on a binary computer or on some kind of a Chinese room set up, etc etc. Think about how different two turing machines can be which implement the same algorithm. They don't even have to use the same symbols or states. They could print their outputs in English, French or any other natural language. The only thing that all Turing machines which implement the same algorithm have in common is a "vibe". Same kind of general vibe which the original commenter was talking about.
- ENGNR 2y ago
  Damn corpos will try to control anything to make a buck
thrillgore 2y ago
I don't think that's true anymore, I believe Mike sold the IP to CD Project and has a stake in the company now, but I need to find a source to confirm this.
- bluefirebrand 2y ago
  My understanding is Mike sold media rights to Cyberpunk to CD Projekt but not the IP itself

> how CD Project Red handled their successful Cyberpunk integration on Netflix as a model A reminder that Cyberpunk IP holder is Mike Pondsmith, not CD Project.

MichaelZuo 2y ago

How can anyone hold IP over an abstract vibe?

alwyn 2y ago
Cyberpunk != cyberpunk, unfortunately. Cyberpunk 2077 is set in the Cyberpunk RPG universe that was created by Mike Pondsmith in 1988. It was named after the vibe without changing the name... Also a helpful article: https://www.polygon.com/reviews/2019/8/7/20756548/cyberpunk-red-jumpstart-kit-review-2077-prequel https://www.polygon.com/reviews/2019/8/7/20756548/cyberpunk-...
- gs17 2y ago
  The vibe already overloaded the name of a different story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_(short_story) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_(short_story)
ivmoreau 2y ago
In this context is referring as Cyberpunk the role playing game, rather than just the genre. Cyberpunk 2077 has a setting based on the role playing board game (that’s where some characters come from, like Silverhand), and that setting is the original IP.
JohnBooty 2y ago
It's like how Microsoft owns Windows, but not windows.
- mikrl 2y ago
  If you got a few of those motorized windows and hooked up a laptop running MS’ operating system to control them all, but only during certain times of day, there would be a window where your windows would be Windows windows.
  - helpfulclippy 2y ago
    You could set up a sweepstakes to install them with some complicated terms. Then you could explain to the local Vietnamese baker how the rules work — in other words, when does Nguyen Doughs win doze Windows windows?
rhelz 2y ago
// How can anyone hold IP over an abstract vibe? // Same way somebody can hold a patent to a cartoon drawing of a mouse. It's not any individual picture of Mickey Mouse which is (solely) copywrited; even if you draw Mickey Mouse from a different angle, or upside down, or turn it into a plush toy, or a popsicle.....or if you drew Mickey's twin brother, or even his younger brother who bore a family resemblance.... ...what do all those things have in common? If its not a "vibe"--a certain essence of Mickey-Mouseness.
- amiga386 2y ago
  You can't hold a patent to a cartoon drawing of a mouse (that you're implying is the character Mickey Mouse) You can hold a design patent for the look of a tangible object - e.g. the rounded corners of an iPhone. You can also hold a design patent for particularly novel typefaces (fonts), the layout of a screen (e.g. like Norton Commander's twin directory listings on the left and right) and for computer icons, but that only covers them when they're displayed on screen. So you could get a patent for the stylised depiction of a mouse as an icon, but only in that context. If you wanted to flex ownership of a fictional character design, you get that by copyright, not patent. And the copyright law on derivative works is what protects that fiction character design from being copied or evolved by others. But it can't stop them parodying your design in order to ridicule it (specifically), so you don't have absolute control over it. This is why I don't like the use of the term "IP" or "intellecual property", as it completely muddies the waters as to what your actual rights are, and what limitations of "ownership" there are.
  - rhelz 2y ago
    // You can't hold a patent to a cartoon drawing of a mouse // No, cartoons are protected by copyright, not by patents. And if I'm not mistaken, the original comment which wondered if a general vibe could be intellectual property was talking about something which would be protected by copyright as well. But the same principle holds for patents. E.g. patenting an algorithm. It doesn't matter what language the algorithm is implemented in, whether you are running it on a binary computer or on some kind of a Chinese room set up, etc etc. Think about how different two turing machines can be which implement the same algorithm. They don't even have to use the same symbols or states. They could print their outputs in English, French or any other natural language. The only thing that all Turing machines which implement the same algorithm have in common is a "vibe". Same kind of general vibe which the original commenter was talking about.
ENGNR 2y ago
Damn corpos will try to control anything to make a buck

thrillgore 2y ago

I don't think that's true anymore, I believe Mike sold the IP to CD Project and has a stake in the company now, but I need to find a source to confirm this.

bluefirebrand 2y ago
My understanding is Mike sold media rights to Cyberpunk to CD Projekt but not the IP itself