4 ms·

The shocking part is how new generation have a fully rational reinterpretation of all this, they call it "ethical sex". It's beautiful to them (probably in cont

The shocking part is how new generation have a fully rational reinterpretation of all this, they call it "ethical sex". It's beautiful to them (probably in contrast to the boat loads of issues IRL social and intimate relationships can bring with them). And anything not aligned with their view causes a lot of angry arguments.

sulandor 2y ago
[flagged]
- GreenWatermelon 2y ago
  Completely irrelevant and without substance comment. You don't even know the parent but you an unsubstantiated claim for the sake 9f argument.
  - sulandor 2y ago
    no one has even gone as far as decided to even look more like
- kingkawn 2y ago
  What a defensively unhinged injection of a broad generalization.
  - slackfan 2y ago
    Snarky defensiveness rationalized as wit or "owning" the conversational partner.
    - sulandor 2y ago
      passive agressive deraling of conversation
      - slackfan 2y ago
        Terminal online syndrome
        sulandor 2y ago
        that's a good one, thx
antimemetics 2y ago
Every new generation is worse than the one before them
- frogpelt 2y ago
  Until there’s a great revival/revolution. Then we start over.
  - doublepg23 2y ago
    Only 426,875 years of Kali Yuga left!
- Demiurge 2y ago
  Dtaisk Afai. Cof Lemma, 19:1, 2, 549-552 / https://www.jstor.org/stable/25414613 https://www.jstor.org/stable/25414613 Let me first give you four quotations. Firstly: “Our youth loves luxury, has bad manners, disregards authority, and has no respect whatsoever for age. Our children today are tyrants; they do not get up when an elderly man enters the room—they talk back to their parents—they are just very bad.” Secondly: “I no longer have any hope for the future of our country if today’s youth should ever become the leaders of tomorrow, because this youth is unbearable, reckless—just terrible.” Thirdly: “Our world has reached a critical stage; children no longer listen to their parents; the end of the world cannot be far away.” Finally: “This youth is rotten from the very bottom of their hearts; the young people are malicious and lazy; they will never be as youth happened to be before. Today’s youth will not be able to maintain our culture.” The first quote came from Socrates (470–399 B.C.); the second from Hesiod (circa 720 B.C.); the third from an Egyptian priest about 2,000 years ago; and the last was recently discovered on clay pots in the ruins of Old Babylon, which are more than 3,000 years old.
  - hyggetrold 2y ago
    "It seems like nobody wants to work these days" has been a refrain since ancient Mesopotamia!
    - 2y ago
afavour 2y ago
The circle of life. People said the same thing about Playboy when it first came out, about Internet porn when it first came out… People have been “falling in love” with strippers for as long as strippers have existed. In many ways OF feels like a positive step because it allows the removal of toxic middlemen that stand between the model and their customer. To my mind the bigger issue is how much of it is a total scam. OF models offshoring their DM responses so their clients think they’re having conversations with the model when it’s actually some dude half the world away. Or using AI for the same, which I’m sure is increasing exponentially. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens when AI is able to generate on demand video/photo and chat that’s realistic enough to satisfy an online client. If people are specifically told it’s AI will they be content with that? Or will they still want an actual real human? We're not exactly rational creatures at the best of times so it’ll be fascinating to see. We’ll have gone from the phone sex lines of yore, where you are interacting with a real human even though they’re definitely not the human you’re imagining in your head, to an AI video chat where you’re seeing exactly what you want but there’s nothing behind it.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  > OF models [...] using AI for [answering DM responses] This seems like OF's Etsy trap moment. On the one hand, scaling creator:individual_fan multiples via AI assisted messaging = $$$ (to creators and OF) On the other hand, it canabalizes their core business value tenet -- authenticity. It'll be curious to see which path they choose, and if it ends up playing out similar to Etsy. I.e. temporarily increasing their revenue while erroding their brand, then having to tack back once they realize how dire things have gotten in customers' eyes.
  - mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
    Doing it with LLMs may be new but the idea of farming out the fan interaction to an army of gig workers plus automation is well established, including automation for suggested replies, keeping track of past interactions, etc.
  - naijaboiler 2y ago
    Embracing gen AI is absolutely the wrong move for a content creators. People are not paying for visuals and conversations. They are paying for a genuine human to human interaction. If you take away that part, you’re left with worthless pixels on a screen
tivert 2y ago
> The shocking part is how new generation have a fully rational reinterpretation of all this, they call it "ethical sex". It's beautiful to them (probably in contrast to the boat loads of issues IRL social and intimate relationships can bring with them). And anything not aligned with their view causes a lot of angry arguments. Do you have a source for that angrily defended "fully rational reinterpretation"? I suspect the word for what's going on is rationalization not "fully rational reinterpretation" (e.g. "This is a thing we're doing, therefore it's good because we do it. Let's reevaluate everything else to achieve that result.").
- agumonkey 2y ago
  I wouldn't say rationalization considering the lack of experience of these teens. Lack of scope in life forbids this imo, hence my adhoc neologism. These were redditors that were unhappy saying that being an only fan model is the laziest thing one can do. That's when they taught me about their concepts.
  - tivert 2y ago
    > I wouldn't say rationalization considering the lack of experience of these teens. Lack of scope in life forbids this imo, hence my adhoc neologism. Can you explain that more? In my mind anyone can rationalize their behavior ("a way of describing, interpreting, or explaining something (such as bad behavior) that makes it seem proper, more attractive, etc.", https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rationalization https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rationalization), so no experience is required. Even preschoolers can do it. > These were redditors that were unhappy saying that being an only fan model is the laziest thing one can do. That's when they taught me about their concepts. Do you have the thread? Or can you give more context? Were they OnlyFans models? Were they subscribers defending their participation?
    - agumonkey 2y ago
      Then call it rationalization if you think that it fits. But afaik they were not even trying to paint it as attractive, they felt sincerely in a belief that this was a great new invention that freed people. Hmm I doubt I could find the link unless I dug my last year reddit history comment by comment. I think these were dudes defending girl models decisions.
mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
Every generation shockingly reinterprets things. Our generation "shockingly" interprets a mixed race couple kissing on TV as normal, instead of obscene enough to be banned.
- agumonkey 2y ago
  I don't think recurrences of this kind are an infinite line that can apply forever. Usually I account for the generational gap when thinking, even though it's something that may evade my mind.
ethbr1 2y ago
The younger generation has a weird relationship with the physical reality of sexuality, I expect because so much has been perfection-optimized in media portrayals of it, post-~2000. If you go back and watch <= 90s movies and tv (PG-13!), it's amazing how pervasive and frank sexuality there is.^ In contrast to current mores that mandate sexy, but never actually talking about sex. The deterioration of more honest discourse in mass media about realistic (read: fumbling, awkward, funny, vulnerable, spiritual) physical sexuality has left young folks ill prepared to enjoy that side of life. ^ Exhibit A: Hercules the Legendary Journeys (1994, produced by Sam Raimi!) S01E02, which would make most kids today cringe, despite just being scantily-clad depictions of consensual sexual desire and bawdy banter https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgz7burclcI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgz7burclcI
- throwanem 2y ago
  "Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny." https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/ https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/ (edit: replace SEO spam blog with original host)
- sss111 2y ago
  There are shows made today that capture the realistic nature of it. White Lotus or Scenes from a Marriage on HBO are good examples.
throwanem 2y ago
I'd be fascinated to see an ethnological elaboration of this concept, but nothing's turning up so far - not surprising, I think, but I wonder if you could point to something.
- agumonkey 2y ago
  Ethical sex? I couldn't talk long with the kids but I assume they took physical safety and freedom as only important aspect when approaching onlyfans. Teen girl idol can spread her legs if she wants to and no one can take advantage (unlike the pre me too era)
  - throwanem 2y ago
    Okay, but what I'm really looking for is the account given by its adherents. I want to hear in their own terms, because I genuinely don't know if I can understand the idea in terms of my own experience. I can make it make sense to me, sure; anyone can do that with almost anything. I don't have a guide to how closely that would correspond to the sense made of it by the people who actually pursue it. Third-party opinions don't actually count for much there, but this might also be too new a thing to have been studied. I don't know. It seems to me like it would have to be terribly lonely and unfulfilling. But that might just be in comparison with my own pre-Internet experience, or maybe something I'm entirely missing.
    - agumonkey 2y ago
      Fair points. If I may add my own perception of their reality, these are often nymph like teen which maps the usual boy feminine ideal.. so instead of fantasizing about it in comics or animes they have real ones behind screens to interact / drool / peep on, which is also a very boy like mindset. Later on your understanding of beauty, love, relationship evolves beyond that thin layer. It's their neverending christmas.
      - throwanem 2y ago
        That's certainly a perspective.

sulandor 2y ago

[flagged]

GreenWatermelon 2y ago
Completely irrelevant and without substance comment. You don't even know the parent but you an unsubstantiated claim for the sake 9f argument.
- sulandor 2y ago
  no one has even gone as far as decided to even look more like
kingkawn 2y ago
What a defensively unhinged injection of a broad generalization.
- slackfan 2y ago
  Snarky defensiveness rationalized as wit or "owning" the conversational partner.
  - sulandor 2y ago
    passive agressive deraling of conversation
    - slackfan 2y ago
      Terminal online syndrome
      - sulandor 2y ago
        that's a good one, thx

antimemetics 2y ago

Every new generation is worse than the one before them

frogpelt 2y ago
Until there’s a great revival/revolution. Then we start over.
- doublepg23 2y ago
  Only 426,875 years of Kali Yuga left!
Demiurge 2y ago
Dtaisk Afai. Cof Lemma, 19:1, 2, 549-552 / https://www.jstor.org/stable/25414613 https://www.jstor.org/stable/25414613 Let me first give you four quotations. Firstly: “Our youth loves luxury, has bad manners, disregards authority, and has no respect whatsoever for age. Our children today are tyrants; they do not get up when an elderly man enters the room—they talk back to their parents—they are just very bad.” Secondly: “I no longer have any hope for the future of our country if today’s youth should ever become the leaders of tomorrow, because this youth is unbearable, reckless—just terrible.” Thirdly: “Our world has reached a critical stage; children no longer listen to their parents; the end of the world cannot be far away.” Finally: “This youth is rotten from the very bottom of their hearts; the young people are malicious and lazy; they will never be as youth happened to be before. Today’s youth will not be able to maintain our culture.” The first quote came from Socrates (470–399 B.C.); the second from Hesiod (circa 720 B.C.); the third from an Egyptian priest about 2,000 years ago; and the last was recently discovered on clay pots in the ruins of Old Babylon, which are more than 3,000 years old.
- hyggetrold 2y ago
  "It seems like nobody wants to work these days" has been a refrain since ancient Mesopotamia!
  - 2y ago

afavour 2y ago

The circle of life. People said the same thing about Playboy when it first came out, about Internet porn when it first came out… People have been “falling in love” with strippers for as long as strippers have existed. In many ways OF feels like a positive step because it allows the removal of toxic middlemen that stand between the model and their customer. To my mind the bigger issue is how much of it is a total scam. OF models offshoring their DM responses so their clients think they’re having conversations with the model when it’s actually some dude half the world away. Or using AI for the same, which I’m sure is increasing exponentially. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens when AI is able to generate on demand video/photo and chat that’s realistic enough to satisfy an online client. If people are specifically told it’s AI will they be content with that? Or will they still want an actual real human? We're not exactly rational creatures at the best of times so it’ll be fascinating to see. We’ll have gone from the phone sex lines of yore, where you are interacting with a real human even though they’re definitely not the human you’re imagining in your head, to an AI video chat where you’re seeing exactly what you want but there’s nothing behind it.

ethbr1 2y ago
> OF models [...] using AI for [answering DM responses] This seems like OF's Etsy trap moment. On the one hand, scaling creator:individual_fan multiples via AI assisted messaging = $$$ (to creators and OF) On the other hand, it canabalizes their core business value tenet -- authenticity. It'll be curious to see which path they choose, and if it ends up playing out similar to Etsy. I.e. temporarily increasing their revenue while erroding their brand, then having to tack back once they realize how dire things have gotten in customers' eyes.
- mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
  Doing it with LLMs may be new but the idea of farming out the fan interaction to an army of gig workers plus automation is well established, including automation for suggested replies, keeping track of past interactions, etc.
- naijaboiler 2y ago
  Embracing gen AI is absolutely the wrong move for a content creators. People are not paying for visuals and conversations. They are paying for a genuine human to human interaction. If you take away that part, you’re left with worthless pixels on a screen

tivert 2y ago

> The shocking part is how new generation have a fully rational reinterpretation of all this, they call it "ethical sex". It's beautiful to them (probably in contrast to the boat loads of issues IRL social and intimate relationships can bring with them). And anything not aligned with their view causes a lot of angry arguments. Do you have a source for that angrily defended "fully rational reinterpretation"? I suspect the word for what's going on is rationalization not "fully rational reinterpretation" (e.g. "This is a thing we're doing, therefore it's good because we do it. Let's reevaluate everything else to achieve that result.").

agumonkey 2y ago
I wouldn't say rationalization considering the lack of experience of these teens. Lack of scope in life forbids this imo, hence my adhoc neologism. These were redditors that were unhappy saying that being an only fan model is the laziest thing one can do. That's when they taught me about their concepts.
- tivert 2y ago
  > I wouldn't say rationalization considering the lack of experience of these teens. Lack of scope in life forbids this imo, hence my adhoc neologism. Can you explain that more? In my mind anyone can rationalize their behavior ("a way of describing, interpreting, or explaining something (such as bad behavior) that makes it seem proper, more attractive, etc.", https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rationalization https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rationalization), so no experience is required. Even preschoolers can do it. > These were redditors that were unhappy saying that being an only fan model is the laziest thing one can do. That's when they taught me about their concepts. Do you have the thread? Or can you give more context? Were they OnlyFans models? Were they subscribers defending their participation?
  - agumonkey 2y ago
    Then call it rationalization if you think that it fits. But afaik they were not even trying to paint it as attractive, they felt sincerely in a belief that this was a great new invention that freed people. Hmm I doubt I could find the link unless I dug my last year reddit history comment by comment. I think these were dudes defending girl models decisions.

mrgoldenbrown 2y ago

Every generation shockingly reinterprets things. Our generation "shockingly" interprets a mixed race couple kissing on TV as normal, instead of obscene enough to be banned.

agumonkey 2y ago
I don't think recurrences of this kind are an infinite line that can apply forever. Usually I account for the generational gap when thinking, even though it's something that may evade my mind.

ethbr1 2y ago

The younger generation has a weird relationship with the physical reality of sexuality, I expect because so much has been perfection-optimized in media portrayals of it, post-~2000. If you go back and watch <= 90s movies and tv (PG-13!), it's amazing how pervasive and frank sexuality there is.^ In contrast to current mores that mandate sexy, but never actually talking about sex. The deterioration of more honest discourse in mass media about realistic (read: fumbling, awkward, funny, vulnerable, spiritual) physical sexuality has left young folks ill prepared to enjoy that side of life. ^ Exhibit A: Hercules the Legendary Journeys (1994, produced by Sam Raimi!) S01E02, which would make most kids today cringe, despite just being scantily-clad depictions of consensual sexual desire and bawdy banter https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgz7burclcI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgz7burclcI

throwanem 2y ago
"Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny." https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/ https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/ (edit: replace SEO spam blog with original host)
sss111 2y ago
There are shows made today that capture the realistic nature of it. White Lotus or Scenes from a Marriage on HBO are good examples.

throwanem 2y ago

I'd be fascinated to see an ethnological elaboration of this concept, but nothing's turning up so far - not surprising, I think, but I wonder if you could point to something.

agumonkey 2y ago
Ethical sex? I couldn't talk long with the kids but I assume they took physical safety and freedom as only important aspect when approaching onlyfans. Teen girl idol can spread her legs if she wants to and no one can take advantage (unlike the pre me too era)
- throwanem 2y ago
  Okay, but what I'm really looking for is the account given by its adherents. I want to hear in their own terms, because I genuinely don't know if I can understand the idea in terms of my own experience. I can make it make sense to me, sure; anyone can do that with almost anything. I don't have a guide to how closely that would correspond to the sense made of it by the people who actually pursue it. Third-party opinions don't actually count for much there, but this might also be too new a thing to have been studied. I don't know. It seems to me like it would have to be terribly lonely and unfulfilling. But that might just be in comparison with my own pre-Internet experience, or maybe something I'm entirely missing.
  - agumonkey 2y ago
    Fair points. If I may add my own perception of their reality, these are often nymph like teen which maps the usual boy feminine ideal.. so instead of fantasizing about it in comics or animes they have real ones behind screens to interact / drool / peep on, which is also a very boy like mindset. Later on your understanding of beauty, love, relationship evolves beyond that thin layer. It's their neverending christmas.
    - throwanem 2y ago
      That's certainly a perspective.