4 ms·

When the participation trophy generation grows up and becomes generals you'll hear things like, we would've won that war if it wasn't for all that attrition!

bluGill 2y ago
What attrition? While deaths were not zero they were very low.
- willcipriano 2y ago
  Roughly 2.2 trillion on the credit card for Afghanistan alone. That's without the interest that will be paid on it. Your grandkids children will be paying for that war.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    The only time anyone cares about that debt is when democrats are in control of the government - then republicans care. (sometimes when republicans control congress and the democrats control the president they care, but it is not as much then)
    - willcipriano 2y ago
      The only president in my lifetime to not start any wars isn't really liked by either the democrats or the establishment republicans. Both parties are big fans of losing wars for some reason.
      - mulmen 2y ago
        Were you born in 2020?
        willcipriano 2y ago
        > An armed conflict between Israel and Hamas-led Palestinian militant groups[ad] has been taking place in the Gaza Strip and Israel since 7 October 2023. > The United States has given Israel extensive military aid and vetoed multiple UN Security Council ceasefire resolutions. > United States provided advice and intelligence to Israeli forces during the raid, through its "hostage cell" stationed in Israel. The attack resulted in the deaths of 274 Palestinians. How would that work in your mind? Call that one for Harris because Biden is mentally unfit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        By that measure what the hell was bombing Suleimani? Or moving our recognised capital of Israel to Jerusalem? Or arms to Saudi Arabia during their war with Yemen? Neither Trump nor Biden started a war. They had wars happening around them that we were to various degrees involved.
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        Here's a (kind of?) objective take: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States#21st-century_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni... By my quick count, Obama (awarded the Nobel Peace Prize) started seven wars, Trump started zero wars, and Biden so far started one war. All three Presidents were involved in a war started by a predecessor. So, yeah. Trump started no wars, and he is the most rejected POTUS by the Powers That Be(tm) for that and other reasons.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        Reading a bit more into the war started by Biden against the Houthis, I... didn't quite realize the Navy had straight up admitted we are weak and useless. >“We’re sort of on the verge of the Houthis being able to mount the kinds of attacks that the U.S. can’t stop every time, and then we will start to see substantial damage. … If you let it fester, the Houthis are going to get to be a much more capable, competent, experienced force.” https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2024/06/16/navy-faces-most-intense-running-sea-battle-since-wwii-with-houthis/ https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2024/06/16/navy-fac... Worth noting, this is an entire USN carrier strike group. This is simply embarassing.
ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
literally no one said that or even a rough approximation of that. Seriously I have no love for the generals but even they're not that dumb.
- willcipriano 2y ago
  The comment I'm replying to said that and it was said frequently about Vietnam. What they didn't do is use the clear language I used and instead blamed the public for not wanting to spend every last penny on a pyrrhic victory as if that isn't attrition.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    I agree that the dollar cost is real attrition too. Vietnam and Afghanistan were so wildly costly because we made the (political) choice to limit how we could engage the enemy, while our enemies were not limiting themselves Vietnam: limiting Cambodia ops, the DMZ, limiting bombing of N Vietnam Afghanistan: limiting Pakistan ops, focusing on creating a stable democracy rather than killing Taliban then leaving We made political choices on how to wage war, and then blamed the military for those poor choices.
    - willcipriano 2y ago
      Yeah, we could use biological weapons or drop hydrogen bombs as a few examples. We could send marines house to house executing anyone who even looks like a bad guy. Trouble is giving a few million civilians radiation poisoning or the bubonic plaque to "stop communism" or to "spread democracy" is evil and insane.
      - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
        You've made a rather wild leap here.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      >then blamed the military for those poor choices. Also the military. A war effort involves the entire country: The entire economy beyond just the military industrial complex, all branches of politics, and the military including both officers and rank-and-file soldiers.

bluGill 2y ago

What attrition? While deaths were not zero they were very low.

willcipriano 2y ago
Roughly 2.2 trillion on the credit card for Afghanistan alone. That's without the interest that will be paid on it. Your grandkids children will be paying for that war.
- bluGill 2y ago
  The only time anyone cares about that debt is when democrats are in control of the government - then republicans care. (sometimes when republicans control congress and the democrats control the president they care, but it is not as much then)
  - willcipriano 2y ago
    The only president in my lifetime to not start any wars isn't really liked by either the democrats or the establishment republicans. Both parties are big fans of losing wars for some reason.
    - mulmen 2y ago
      Were you born in 2020?
      - willcipriano 2y ago
        > An armed conflict between Israel and Hamas-led Palestinian militant groups[ad] has been taking place in the Gaza Strip and Israel since 7 October 2023. > The United States has given Israel extensive military aid and vetoed multiple UN Security Council ceasefire resolutions. > United States provided advice and intelligence to Israeli forces during the raid, through its "hostage cell" stationed in Israel. The attack resulted in the deaths of 274 Palestinians. How would that work in your mind? Call that one for Harris because Biden is mentally unfit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        By that measure what the hell was bombing Suleimani? Or moving our recognised capital of Israel to Jerusalem? Or arms to Saudi Arabia during their war with Yemen? Neither Trump nor Biden started a war. They had wars happening around them that we were to various degrees involved.
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        Here's a (kind of?) objective take: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States#21st-century_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni... By my quick count, Obama (awarded the Nobel Peace Prize) started seven wars, Trump started zero wars, and Biden so far started one war. All three Presidents were involved in a war started by a predecessor. So, yeah. Trump started no wars, and he is the most rejected POTUS by the Powers That Be(tm) for that and other reasons.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        Reading a bit more into the war started by Biden against the Houthis, I... didn't quite realize the Navy had straight up admitted we are weak and useless. >“We’re sort of on the verge of the Houthis being able to mount the kinds of attacks that the U.S. can’t stop every time, and then we will start to see substantial damage. … If you let it fester, the Houthis are going to get to be a much more capable, competent, experienced force.” https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2024/06/16/navy-faces-most-intense-running-sea-battle-since-wwii-with-houthis/ https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2024/06/16/navy-fac... Worth noting, this is an entire USN carrier strike group. This is simply embarassing.

ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago

literally no one said that or even a rough approximation of that. Seriously I have no love for the generals but even they're not that dumb.

willcipriano 2y ago
The comment I'm replying to said that and it was said frequently about Vietnam. What they didn't do is use the clear language I used and instead blamed the public for not wanting to spend every last penny on a pyrrhic victory as if that isn't attrition.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  I agree that the dollar cost is real attrition too. Vietnam and Afghanistan were so wildly costly because we made the (political) choice to limit how we could engage the enemy, while our enemies were not limiting themselves Vietnam: limiting Cambodia ops, the DMZ, limiting bombing of N Vietnam Afghanistan: limiting Pakistan ops, focusing on creating a stable democracy rather than killing Taliban then leaving We made political choices on how to wage war, and then blamed the military for those poor choices.
  - willcipriano 2y ago
    Yeah, we could use biological weapons or drop hydrogen bombs as a few examples. We could send marines house to house executing anyone who even looks like a bad guy. Trouble is giving a few million civilians radiation poisoning or the bubonic plaque to "stop communism" or to "spread democracy" is evil and insane.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
      You've made a rather wild leap here.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    >then blamed the military for those poor choices. Also the military. A war effort involves the entire country: The entire economy beyond just the military industrial complex, all branches of politics, and the military including both officers and rank-and-file soldiers.