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From the page: At present, Leif, Joe, and Uri do not have pro bono representation. The lawyers they’ve spoken to currently estimate that their defense could cos

From the page: At present, Leif, Joe, and Uri do not have pro bono representation. The lawyers they’ve spoken to currently estimate that their defense could cost anywhere between $50,000 and $600,000 (depending on how far the lawsuit progresses).

yard2010 2y ago
That's scary, really. Having no money for this means you can't afford to fight these criminal crooks. Is this how this works in europe too?
- Mkengine 2y ago
  No, where I live (Germany) you usually have a legal insurance to cover this. The costs are around 30€ per month in my case.
  - Cthulhu_ 2y ago
    I live next door and have some legal insurance, but you need to pay attention to what coverage you get, because you need to select what categories you want coverage for; vehicles (e.g. if someone who caused an accident refuses to cooperate with you), consumer/housing disputes, work and salary, taxes / stocks, family issues like inheritances, second homes / real estate, etc etc etc. And of course, you can't take out insurance for an ongoing issue, it doesn't cover criminal cases (when you did a bad), business cases, etc.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Germany also regulates legal fees, so self-insurance is quite reasonable. I've now been involved in two cases (once as plaintiff, once as defendant) and it seems the amount I paid is approximately the same as I would have paid in legal insurance.
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    Corporate liability insurance in the US, which is also a very common thing to get, often does not cover your defense against "intentional torts" such as defamation or fraud. It usually covers things like slips and falls, product-related liability, etc. I would be surprised if your German version covers defamation.
- Hamuko 2y ago
  In Europe, the losing party of a lawsuit generally has to pay for the winner's legal expenses ("English rule"). Never had to go to court so I don't know what you do about the expenses in the meanwhile, but at least there's light at the end of the tunnel when someone sues you just for the heck of it.
  - jaclaz 2y ago
    Europe may be too wide a categorization, I am pretty sure that different countries have different ways to deal with the matter. My (thankfully very little) experience in Italy is for civil litigations at least (where it is rare that one of the two parties get 100% reason) expenses are usually compensated (i.e. every party pays their own ones), in the more rare case where all expenses are paid by the succumbing party, what is liquidated is not really what has been paid, but rather what the expenses would be along some sort of tariff. If your solicitor/lawyer is a famous (presumably very good as you won) one, it is likely that the amount you spend is much higher than what the judge condemned the other party to reimburse you.
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    In the US, you can ask for fee-shifting if you have been sued frivolously or there has otherwise been some wrongdoing on the part of the other side. These guys may be able to motion for fee-shifting given that the case was dismissed at this early stage. State defamation cases usually apply anti-SLAPP laws that automatically create fee-shifting in this exact circumstance, but this seems to be a federal case.

yard2010 2y ago

That's scary, really. Having no money for this means you can't afford to fight these criminal crooks. Is this how this works in europe too?

Mkengine 2y ago
No, where I live (Germany) you usually have a legal insurance to cover this. The costs are around 30€ per month in my case.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  I live next door and have some legal insurance, but you need to pay attention to what coverage you get, because you need to select what categories you want coverage for; vehicles (e.g. if someone who caused an accident refuses to cooperate with you), consumer/housing disputes, work and salary, taxes / stocks, family issues like inheritances, second homes / real estate, etc etc etc. And of course, you can't take out insurance for an ongoing issue, it doesn't cover criminal cases (when you did a bad), business cases, etc.
- immibis 2y ago
  Germany also regulates legal fees, so self-insurance is quite reasonable. I've now been involved in two cases (once as plaintiff, once as defendant) and it seems the amount I paid is approximately the same as I would have paid in legal insurance.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  Corporate liability insurance in the US, which is also a very common thing to get, often does not cover your defense against "intentional torts" such as defamation or fraud. It usually covers things like slips and falls, product-related liability, etc. I would be surprised if your German version covers defamation.
Hamuko 2y ago
In Europe, the losing party of a lawsuit generally has to pay for the winner's legal expenses ("English rule"). Never had to go to court so I don't know what you do about the expenses in the meanwhile, but at least there's light at the end of the tunnel when someone sues you just for the heck of it.
- jaclaz 2y ago
  Europe may be too wide a categorization, I am pretty sure that different countries have different ways to deal with the matter. My (thankfully very little) experience in Italy is for civil litigations at least (where it is rare that one of the two parties get 100% reason) expenses are usually compensated (i.e. every party pays their own ones), in the more rare case where all expenses are paid by the succumbing party, what is liquidated is not really what has been paid, but rather what the expenses would be along some sort of tariff. If your solicitor/lawyer is a famous (presumably very good as you won) one, it is likely that the amount you spend is much higher than what the judge condemned the other party to reimburse you.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  In the US, you can ask for fee-shifting if you have been sued frivolously or there has otherwise been some wrongdoing on the part of the other side. These guys may be able to motion for fee-shifting given that the case was dismissed at this early stage. State defamation cases usually apply anti-SLAPP laws that automatically create fee-shifting in this exact circumstance, but this seems to be a federal case.