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I wish more was spent on trying to verify the authenticity of the hardware, or contacting HP for comment. The simplest explanation is that a distributor in Braz

I wish more was spent on trying to verify the authenticity of the hardware, or contacting HP for comment. The simplest explanation is that a distributor in Brazil sourced counterfeit hardware. Authenticatic hardware shipping with some bespoke and defective firmware seems even less likely than simple counterfeiting.

neilv 2y ago
Cracking it open to examine the board might be helpful.
stonogo 2y ago
The article mentions getting replacements from HP which exhibited the same behavior.
throwup238 2y ago
> Authenticatic hardware shipping with some bespoke and defective firmware seems even less likely than simple counterfeiting. It's not as unlikely as you would think. Electronic counterfeiters are often just ghost shifts at contract manufacturers. If a single company is handling the injection molding, PCB, and assembly, they can run a secret shift that makes units for them to sell themselves. Even if they can't get ahold of all the surplus parts they need, they can design their own. Since the firmware is different, HP could have also outsourced production maintenance too (i.e. updating firmware if a chip reaches end of life and needs to be replaced with something that's not exactly compatible) which isn't unheard of for legacy products that no one wants to deal with.
- emmelaich 2y ago
  Wikipedia says There were at least nine hardware revisions of the HP-12C since 1981 (including one special issue) Wikipedia has a lot of info. I'd like to know the serial numbers of the defective units. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-12C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-12C
xeeeeeeeeeeenu 2y ago
>Authenticatic hardware shipping with some bespoke and defective firmware seems even less likely than simple counterfeiting. One possible hypothesis is that HP switched to a new SoC, due to price or availability, and porting the firmware introduced some bugs.
teruakohatu 2y ago
> The simplest explanation is that a distributor in Brazil sourced counterfeit hardware. I wouldn't call this the simplest explanation. While they a vastly overpriced produce in 2024, its a niche product and I doubt sales are high. The simplest explanation an engineer was told to update the firmware and it had a side effect on the TVM function.
emmelaich 2y ago
Since it is much used in finance, having it give the wrong answers could be very rewarding money-wise if placed in the wrong ("right") hands. I know someone very successful in finance who had the 12c as his constant companion. Far-fetched but interesting possibility.

neilv 2y ago

Cracking it open to examine the board might be helpful.

stonogo 2y ago

The article mentions getting replacements from HP which exhibited the same behavior.

throwup238 2y ago

> Authenticatic hardware shipping with some bespoke and defective firmware seems even less likely than simple counterfeiting. It's not as unlikely as you would think. Electronic counterfeiters are often just ghost shifts at contract manufacturers. If a single company is handling the injection molding, PCB, and assembly, they can run a secret shift that makes units for them to sell themselves. Even if they can't get ahold of all the surplus parts they need, they can design their own. Since the firmware is different, HP could have also outsourced production maintenance too (i.e. updating firmware if a chip reaches end of life and needs to be replaced with something that's not exactly compatible) which isn't unheard of for legacy products that no one wants to deal with.

emmelaich 2y ago
Wikipedia says There were at least nine hardware revisions of the HP-12C since 1981 (including one special issue) Wikipedia has a lot of info. I'd like to know the serial numbers of the defective units. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-12C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-12C

xeeeeeeeeeeenu 2y ago

>Authenticatic hardware shipping with some bespoke and defective firmware seems even less likely than simple counterfeiting. One possible hypothesis is that HP switched to a new SoC, due to price or availability, and porting the firmware introduced some bugs.

teruakohatu 2y ago

> The simplest explanation is that a distributor in Brazil sourced counterfeit hardware. I wouldn't call this the simplest explanation. While they a vastly overpriced produce in 2024, its a niche product and I doubt sales are high. The simplest explanation an engineer was told to update the firmware and it had a side effect on the TVM function.

emmelaich 2y ago

Since it is much used in finance, having it give the wrong answers could be very rewarding money-wise if placed in the wrong ("right") hands. I know someone very successful in finance who had the 12c as his constant companion. Far-fetched but interesting possibility.