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Low numbers of extreme poor? You have followed a bit too much propaganda and not enough reality it seems. The only country that is worse off in the entire regi

by pelle 18y ago

Low numbers of extreme poor? You have followed a bit too much propaganda and not enough reality it seems. The only country that is worse off in the entire region is Haiti. Probably more than 90% of the population is in extreme poverty. Worse than this Cubans was actually better off than most Europeans before Castro. They may have more doctors per capita now a days, but there is no food and no medicine.

jacobolus 18y ago
> The only country that is worse off in the entire region is Haiti. Probably more than 90% of the population is in extreme poverty. This is completely false. Haiti is indeed much much worse off than the rest of the region, but Cubans have higher purchasing-power parity than Jamaicans, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, Hondurans, Salvadorans, and perhaps a few others, and the country is generally much more equal most Latin American countries, so the bottom couple of quintiles in Cuba do better than their counterparts in Costa Rica, Panama, etc. (or I believe than poor Mexicans, for that matter) It's still overall a poor country, and has many social, economic, and political problems—attributable to many factors, including ineffective leadership, widespread corruption, the US trade embargo, etc.—but the claim that all of Cuba's problems are the fault of the turn away from markets is so oversimplified as to just be wrong. > Cubans was actually better off than most Europeans before Castro This is bullshit. In the 50s, Cubans did a bit better than Southern and Eastern Europeans, but were significantly behind Western Europe. Most Cubans were were not very well off in the first half of the century, and incomes (and equality particularly) rose substantially between 1960 and 1989. Then after the fall of the Soviet Union, there was a precipitous economic decline in Cuba between 1989 and about 1993 or 1994, which took 12 years to fully recover from. Present-day Cubans have higher real incomes than they ever did in the past, however. Listen, I don't really want to have a protracted he-said-she-said about the state of the Cuban economy or the precise definition of "extreme" poverty. My point was merely that davidw's off-hand remarks about the topic were trivializing and unproductive.
- pelle 18y ago
  Cubans do not have higher purchasing power parity that Jamaicans, Guatamalans and all the others you mentioned. This might be true if there was anything to purchase but there isn't. If I start paying myself with wads of Monopoly money I will also have higher income than I have ever had before, it is still monopoly money that doesn't work outside board game. No one is starving in Jamaica and most other countries in the region. (While I have not had the pleasure of living in Cuba, I have lived in Jamaica and Panama and travelled extensively in the region. Both have very high levels of education, health etc.) Cuba was according to 1960 ILO (The International Labour Organization) number 8 world wide for industrial salaries and number 7 for agricultural salaries. While there was not full literacy it had very high rates for the region. Health was also amongst the best in Latin America. For more about this see http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/cubaprecastro21698.html http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/cubaprecastro21698.html Castro has done a great job of selling his miracle revolution. Most of what you hear in hollywood movies and popular press is fabrication and never questioned. Don't believe it.

by pelle 18y ago

jacobolus 18y ago

> The only country that is worse off in the entire region is Haiti. Probably more than 90% of the population is in extreme poverty. This is completely false. Haiti is indeed much much worse off than the rest of the region, but Cubans have higher purchasing-power parity than Jamaicans, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, Hondurans, Salvadorans, and perhaps a few others, and the country is generally much more equal most Latin American countries, so the bottom couple of quintiles in Cuba do better than their counterparts in Costa Rica, Panama, etc. (or I believe than poor Mexicans, for that matter) It's still overall a poor country, and has many social, economic, and political problems—attributable to many factors, including ineffective leadership, widespread corruption, the US trade embargo, etc.—but the claim that all of Cuba's problems are the fault of the turn away from markets is so oversimplified as to just be wrong. > Cubans was actually better off than most Europeans before Castro This is bullshit. In the 50s, Cubans did a bit better than Southern and Eastern Europeans, but were significantly behind Western Europe. Most Cubans were were not very well off in the first half of the century, and incomes (and equality particularly) rose substantially between 1960 and 1989. Then after the fall of the Soviet Union, there was a precipitous economic decline in Cuba between 1989 and about 1993 or 1994, which took 12 years to fully recover from. Present-day Cubans have higher real incomes than they ever did in the past, however. Listen, I don't really want to have a protracted he-said-she-said about the state of the Cuban economy or the precise definition of "extreme" poverty. My point was merely that davidw's off-hand remarks about the topic were trivializing and unproductive.

pelle 18y ago
Cubans do not have higher purchasing power parity that Jamaicans, Guatamalans and all the others you mentioned. This might be true if there was anything to purchase but there isn't. If I start paying myself with wads of Monopoly money I will also have higher income than I have ever had before, it is still monopoly money that doesn't work outside board game. No one is starving in Jamaica and most other countries in the region. (While I have not had the pleasure of living in Cuba, I have lived in Jamaica and Panama and travelled extensively in the region. Both have very high levels of education, health etc.) Cuba was according to 1960 ILO (The International Labour Organization) number 8 world wide for industrial salaries and number 7 for agricultural salaries. While there was not full literacy it had very high rates for the region. Health was also amongst the best in Latin America. For more about this see http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/cubaprecastro21698.html http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/cubaprecastro21698.html Castro has done a great job of selling his miracle revolution. Most of what you hear in hollywood movies and popular press is fabrication and never questioned. Don't believe it.