8 ms·

Apple AirPod Pro 2s can now work as hearing aids

30 points by pwthornton 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
zendaven 2y ago
"The big caveat is that users will still need an iPhone with iOS 18 and newer for this new feature to work."
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  I also didn’t understand why wired headphones don’t work besides profit protection. Suppose that having to hold the phone mics forward is clumsy but would like to have the option.
  - wtallis 2y ago
    I don't think the iPhone is providing the hearing assistance, just the UI for configuring the AirPod Pro's hearing aid functionality.
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      Turning on the mics and feeding to headphones (even with voice boost), has been trivial for a while. It could have been implemented a decade ago, no?
      - don_neufeld 2y ago
        I can understand that position, but in practice I don't think you'd like the quality. One of the big advantages of hearing aides is that they have multiple microphones that have known alignment with your head position. With all 4 mics separated in space, they do a good job of isolating audio coming from in front of you vs from around you.
        desert_rue 2y ago
        Plus people can lose hearing in different bands: they might hear bass fine but people with high-pitched voices may not register. Just turning up the volume won’t address that.
        mixmastamyk 2y ago
        Maybe, maybe not. Noise canceling with multiple mics is old tech. As far as anyone knows, no one ever tried. Maybe I’ll try with my pine phone if I can figure out pipewire programing.
        don_neufeld 2y ago
        Yeah, when you get into what hearing aides do, there's quite a bit going on. This manual is a useful place to start: https://order.starkeypro.com/pdfs/The_Compression_Handbook.pdf https://order.starkeypro.com/pdfs/The_Compression_Handbook.p...
      - wtallis 2y ago
        The FDA regulations allowing for OTC hearing aids didn't go into effect until a little under two years ago, so regardless of the technical feasibility, the market viability of what you're asking for is a recent thing. (Though since using wired headphones with smartphones has been in decline for well over two years, the market viability is still questionable at best.)
        mixmastamyk 2y ago
        It’s a couple of lines of high-level code on hardware that already exists. Doesn’t need market viability or regulatory approval.
lancesells 2y ago
The FDA approved these which feels big. Once Samsung and all the others follow this hearing aids will be much more affordable and accessible.
euroderf 2y ago
So how are hearing aid mfr stocks responding ?
don_neufeld 2y ago
As someone who's worn hearing aides for almost a decade, I'm thrilled to see this. To give folks a sense of the cost difference, here are some numbers: My most recent pair of hearing aides cost $4,400 in 2020. And no, these are not covered by any kind of insurance. AirPods Pro 2 cost $250, about a 95% reduction in price. My most recent service on one of my hearing aides that was failing cost $280. Also, I'm really looking forward to being able to manage things like audio curves myself, vs having to go through an audiologist for every adjustment. The only thing I'm waiting for here before making a switch is better battery life, really want 18/24hours there.
- thebruce87m 2y ago
  Doesn’t 2 pairs solve the battery issue? One set charging in the case while you wear another?
  - don_neufeld 2y ago
    Yes, it definitely helps. It does add some complexity in terms of managing bluetooth though.
    - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
      Not really if you're in the iOS/macOS eco system.
      - don_neufeld 2y ago
        Oh it's pretty bad in my experience. I'm all iOS/MacOS and I find it's barely workable as it is. Would love to hear more ideas for how to make this better. The main problem is that I have to manually disconnect the hearings aides in bluetooth settings on my phone so that then I can connect them on my workstation. This allows me to take video calls straight to the hearing aides, which helps a lot. However, I need that to be for speakers only, microphone has to be wired, so that Bluetooth can use all the bandwidth for higher fidelity audio. MacOS + Zoom is able to remember enough of these settings that it's "only" a 6 click process (4 on the phone, 2 on the workstation) to switch the hearing aides between devices. If I had to juggle multiple bluetooth devices on either end I suspect it would be much harder. I make this transition multiple times per day in each direction, so it really adds up!
omni 2y ago
Where did this article title come from? Last I checked, "soon" isn't "now," the feature isn't actually available yet
- wtallis 2y ago
  "Can now work as hearing aids" as in: has received FDA authorization permitting the feature to be released. Presumably it will be enabled with the iOS update coming on Monday, i.e. the second full business day on which it is legal for the feature to be available.
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41491191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41491191
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
Related Apple study from May: Apple Hearing Study shares preliminary insights on tinnitus https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41491121 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41491121
astroid 2y ago
This, like most bs we have had to endure, is certainly due to them changing the definition of hearing aids. (no, I am not joking). This is why you can buy 'hearing aids' from costco now, without ever seeing an audiologist. I think this is great that the tech is more accessible, IF the consumers are informed about how and why things changed. Adam Currey (of the No Agenda podcast / headbangers ball fame) did a really good critique about this when it happened, and it was one of Nancy Pelosi's pet projects that made her a bunch of money. He made a strong case (as a person deaf in one ear and an audio specialist given his work with tech, MTV, inventing podcasts, and suffering from hearing issues himself). I would be very very wary of any device claiming it is a hearing aid that is not tuned by an audiologist, as you may just make your hearing problem worse. This is what set this trainwreck into motion (picked at random with a quick search): https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/health/fda-hearing-aids.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/health/fda-hearing-aids.h... When you just change the definitions of words for everything and anything, all the sudden nothing matters because nothing can be trusted.
- tchock23 2y ago
  If loosening the definition creates a lower end of the market and puts downward price pressure on the ‘high end’ manufacturers then I’m all for it. My parents just got absolutely robbed buying hearing aids for my great aunt that I’m sure cost in the tens of dollars to manufacture. Let consumers test out the low and high end options to determine if the low end is good enough for their use case.
  - astroid 2y ago
    Why not use a different term? These are quite literally different products and product classes. I'm all for easier access to medical assistance devices -- I am against the erosion of established terms for political points, especially when it leads to ridiculous statements like you just made: "My parents just got absolutely robbed buying hearing aids for my great aunt that I’m sure cost in the tens of dollars to manufacture." -- this shows you know nothing about hearing aids and the absolute bleeding edge technology that goes into real ones. I'm sure it cost a lot and it hurt to pay the price. I'm not arguing these products shouldn't be available -- I'm arguing it's essentially false advertising to lump them in with 'hearing aids' especially with the FDA badge of approval. Give the consumers choice - but don't hide that choice behind falsely equating the product classes. Make it clear they are in fact getting lower end everything, and that's why the price is so low. And make it clear that without an audiologist, you are at risk of damaging your own hearing and eliminating or worsening additinoal frequencies if tuned improperly. Then let the consumer decide. Simple.
canxerian 2y ago
I'm currently working on a project for the blind and through my research have been made aware of the various accessibility features in macos.
Try1275 2y ago
I love this. You can say what you want with everyone wearing airpods all the time but I think there is a lot less stigma with wearing them as opposed to hearing aids. Plus hearing loss is a major risk factor for dementia. So this is big!

30 points by pwthornton 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

zendaven 2y ago

"The big caveat is that users will still need an iPhone with iOS 18 and newer for this new feature to work."

mixmastamyk 2y ago
I also didn’t understand why wired headphones don’t work besides profit protection. Suppose that having to hold the phone mics forward is clumsy but would like to have the option.
- wtallis 2y ago
  I don't think the iPhone is providing the hearing assistance, just the UI for configuring the AirPod Pro's hearing aid functionality.
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    Turning on the mics and feeding to headphones (even with voice boost), has been trivial for a while. It could have been implemented a decade ago, no?
    - don_neufeld 2y ago
      I can understand that position, but in practice I don't think you'd like the quality. One of the big advantages of hearing aides is that they have multiple microphones that have known alignment with your head position. With all 4 mics separated in space, they do a good job of isolating audio coming from in front of you vs from around you.
      - desert_rue 2y ago
        Plus people can lose hearing in different bands: they might hear bass fine but people with high-pitched voices may not register. Just turning up the volume won’t address that.
        mixmastamyk 2y ago
        Maybe, maybe not. Noise canceling with multiple mics is old tech. As far as anyone knows, no one ever tried. Maybe I’ll try with my pine phone if I can figure out pipewire programing.
        don_neufeld 2y ago
        Yeah, when you get into what hearing aides do, there's quite a bit going on. This manual is a useful place to start: https://order.starkeypro.com/pdfs/The_Compression_Handbook.pdf https://order.starkeypro.com/pdfs/The_Compression_Handbook.p...
    - wtallis 2y ago
      The FDA regulations allowing for OTC hearing aids didn't go into effect until a little under two years ago, so regardless of the technical feasibility, the market viability of what you're asking for is a recent thing. (Though since using wired headphones with smartphones has been in decline for well over two years, the market viability is still questionable at best.)
      - mixmastamyk 2y ago
        It’s a couple of lines of high-level code on hardware that already exists. Doesn’t need market viability or regulatory approval.

lancesells 2y ago

The FDA approved these which feels big. Once Samsung and all the others follow this hearing aids will be much more affordable and accessible.

euroderf 2y ago

So how are hearing aid mfr stocks responding ?

don_neufeld 2y ago

As someone who's worn hearing aides for almost a decade, I'm thrilled to see this. To give folks a sense of the cost difference, here are some numbers: My most recent pair of hearing aides cost $4,400 in 2020. And no, these are not covered by any kind of insurance. AirPods Pro 2 cost $250, about a 95% reduction in price. My most recent service on one of my hearing aides that was failing cost $280. Also, I'm really looking forward to being able to manage things like audio curves myself, vs having to go through an audiologist for every adjustment. The only thing I'm waiting for here before making a switch is better battery life, really want 18/24hours there.

thebruce87m 2y ago
Doesn’t 2 pairs solve the battery issue? One set charging in the case while you wear another?
- don_neufeld 2y ago
  Yes, it definitely helps. It does add some complexity in terms of managing bluetooth though.
  - rrr_oh_man 2y ago
    Not really if you're in the iOS/macOS eco system.
    - don_neufeld 2y ago
      Oh it's pretty bad in my experience. I'm all iOS/MacOS and I find it's barely workable as it is. Would love to hear more ideas for how to make this better. The main problem is that I have to manually disconnect the hearings aides in bluetooth settings on my phone so that then I can connect them on my workstation. This allows me to take video calls straight to the hearing aides, which helps a lot. However, I need that to be for speakers only, microphone has to be wired, so that Bluetooth can use all the bandwidth for higher fidelity audio. MacOS + Zoom is able to remember enough of these settings that it's "only" a 6 click process (4 on the phone, 2 on the workstation) to switch the hearing aides between devices. If I had to juggle multiple bluetooth devices on either end I suspect it would be much harder. I make this transition multiple times per day in each direction, so it really adds up!

omni 2y ago

Where did this article title come from? Last I checked, "soon" isn't "now," the feature isn't actually available yet

wtallis 2y ago
"Can now work as hearing aids" as in: has received FDA authorization permitting the feature to be released. Presumably it will be enabled with the iOS update coming on Monday, i.e. the second full business day on which it is legal for the feature to be available.

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41491191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41491191

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

Related Apple study from May: Apple Hearing Study shares preliminary insights on tinnitus https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41491121 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41491121

astroid 2y ago

This, like most bs we have had to endure, is certainly due to them changing the definition of hearing aids. (no, I am not joking). This is why you can buy 'hearing aids' from costco now, without ever seeing an audiologist. I think this is great that the tech is more accessible, IF the consumers are informed about how and why things changed. Adam Currey (of the No Agenda podcast / headbangers ball fame) did a really good critique about this when it happened, and it was one of Nancy Pelosi's pet projects that made her a bunch of money. He made a strong case (as a person deaf in one ear and an audio specialist given his work with tech, MTV, inventing podcasts, and suffering from hearing issues himself). I would be very very wary of any device claiming it is a hearing aid that is not tuned by an audiologist, as you may just make your hearing problem worse. This is what set this trainwreck into motion (picked at random with a quick search): https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/health/fda-hearing-aids.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/health/fda-hearing-aids.h... When you just change the definitions of words for everything and anything, all the sudden nothing matters because nothing can be trusted.

tchock23 2y ago
If loosening the definition creates a lower end of the market and puts downward price pressure on the ‘high end’ manufacturers then I’m all for it. My parents just got absolutely robbed buying hearing aids for my great aunt that I’m sure cost in the tens of dollars to manufacture. Let consumers test out the low and high end options to determine if the low end is good enough for their use case.
- astroid 2y ago
  Why not use a different term? These are quite literally different products and product classes. I'm all for easier access to medical assistance devices -- I am against the erosion of established terms for political points, especially when it leads to ridiculous statements like you just made: "My parents just got absolutely robbed buying hearing aids for my great aunt that I’m sure cost in the tens of dollars to manufacture." -- this shows you know nothing about hearing aids and the absolute bleeding edge technology that goes into real ones. I'm sure it cost a lot and it hurt to pay the price. I'm not arguing these products shouldn't be available -- I'm arguing it's essentially false advertising to lump them in with 'hearing aids' especially with the FDA badge of approval. Give the consumers choice - but don't hide that choice behind falsely equating the product classes. Make it clear they are in fact getting lower end everything, and that's why the price is so low. And make it clear that without an audiologist, you are at risk of damaging your own hearing and eliminating or worsening additinoal frequencies if tuned improperly. Then let the consumer decide. Simple.

canxerian 2y ago

I'm currently working on a project for the blind and through my research have been made aware of the various accessibility features in macos.

Try1275 2y ago

I love this. You can say what you want with everyone wearing airpods all the time but I think there is a lot less stigma with wearing them as opposed to hearing aids. Plus hearing loss is a major risk factor for dementia. So this is big!