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Actually, Craigslist values us, the users, more than most companies. You know how? By leaving so much money on the table that you can't help but love them! Crai

Actually, Craigslist values us, the users, more than most companies. You know how? By leaving so much money on the table that you can't help but love them! Craigslist is a breath of fresh air in a world where everything is optimized as much as possible to part us from our money!

jarcoal 14y ago
If CL decided to take that money on the table, they might have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and went out of business years ago. Maybe they realized the path to greatest profitability was to act like they don't care about profits. Just a thought.
- ericingram 14y ago
  Ah yes, that is how free markets actually work!
- sopooneo 14y ago
  That is possible. But I get the feeling they naively stumbled into that outcome by genuinely trying to be decent.
  - jarcoal 14y ago
    I agree. I've always felt they've had good intentions, and I think that they do in this case as well. They are looking out for the posters who are entrusting them with their data.
prostoalex 14y ago
That is not strictly true. A better search would save the users time, compared to clicking through CL pages, which for popular categories could be overwhelming.
- dedward 14y ago
  But if that doesn't matter to Craig & co, and people still use the site, revenue still stays as expected, they can just NOT mess with it and go play video games or whatever.
stfu 14y ago
That might be also one of the basis for the long time success of Craigslist. Absolute simplicity combined with a rigorous un-intrusive experience for the regular user - no ads, no sign up, no follow us on Twitter.
jacoblyles 14y ago
I don't see how Craigslist refusing to better themselves justifies the millions of hours wasted by their customers using their shitty UI. What a strange sense of justice. If you value users, don't hurt yourself to show it. Rather, don't shut off sites that save them hours of their limited and precious lifetime.
- rsanchez1 14y ago
  I know I can't use the Craigslist website, and can only use mobile apps which provide a much better interface. I hope that Craigslist changes their mind and decides to allow websites to license their API. If they don't, however, then Padmapper should just adapt and become mobile-exclusive, or try to generate their own apartment listings instead of depending on Craigslist.
- bigiain 14y ago
  It's pretty easy to assert that Craigslist is somehow disrespecting their users - perhaps by having poor UI - but it's harder to prove that assertion by setting up a competing service with your idea of a "better UI" for the users. It seems abundantly clear to me that the assertion that "A competitor to Craigslist who got $x right would easily get all Craigslist's users", for any of the usually mentioned values of $x [web design, UI, UX, customer service, search, API, other services using their API, …] - is nothing more than a head-in-the-sand misapprehension on the part of startup/web design/UI people. Craigslist _users_ have not "jumped ship" en-mass to any technically or graphically "better" alternative - and it's hardly from lack of trying by people who're _sure_ they will. I think sometimes we need to get out of the HN/startup/bay-area echo chamber - I'm pretty sure Newmarket and his crew have a much different view of what their user base wants than any assumptions made by the HN zeitgeist…
  - jacoblyles 14y ago
    Do you understand the concept of "monopoly power"? It sounds like you do not. I, personally, save several hours every time I look for an apartment by using padmapper over Craigslist. Aggregated, that's human lifetimes of time saved every year by padmapper. UI isn't about round corners and fancy color schemes. It's about using computers to automate repetitive behaviors. Newmark's defenders tell me what I really want is to waste my limited lifetime clicking manually through entries on his shitty site. But no, I really don't. Fuck Craigslist. Seriously.
dredmorbius 14y ago
Craigslist aren't doing this strictly out of the kindness of their hearts. By charging for only a small number of listing, CL accomplish two things: 1. They create a large marketplace, which by virtue of its size provides more value than if it were a smaller, more diversified set of markets. 2. It "sucks the oxygen out of the room" for any competitor attempting to create a similar service. There are a few other commerce-related online sites -- eBay, Amazon, iTunes store, etc., and even a few competing specialized listings services (jobs, apartments, etc.) -- but none that specifically serve the general classifieds market. I do suspect that there's a genuine component to CL's community service mission. But that doesn't mean the self-serving aspects of its behavior are any less valid.

jarcoal 14y ago

If CL decided to take that money on the table, they might have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and went out of business years ago. Maybe they realized the path to greatest profitability was to act like they don't care about profits. Just a thought.

ericingram 14y ago
Ah yes, that is how free markets actually work!
sopooneo 14y ago
That is possible. But I get the feeling they naively stumbled into that outcome by genuinely trying to be decent.
- jarcoal 14y ago
  I agree. I've always felt they've had good intentions, and I think that they do in this case as well. They are looking out for the posters who are entrusting them with their data.

prostoalex 14y ago

That is not strictly true. A better search would save the users time, compared to clicking through CL pages, which for popular categories could be overwhelming.

dedward 14y ago
But if that doesn't matter to Craig & co, and people still use the site, revenue still stays as expected, they can just NOT mess with it and go play video games or whatever.

stfu 14y ago

That might be also one of the basis for the long time success of Craigslist. Absolute simplicity combined with a rigorous un-intrusive experience for the regular user - no ads, no sign up, no follow us on Twitter.

jacoblyles 14y ago

I don't see how Craigslist refusing to better themselves justifies the millions of hours wasted by their customers using their shitty UI. What a strange sense of justice. If you value users, don't hurt yourself to show it. Rather, don't shut off sites that save them hours of their limited and precious lifetime.

rsanchez1 14y ago
I know I can't use the Craigslist website, and can only use mobile apps which provide a much better interface. I hope that Craigslist changes their mind and decides to allow websites to license their API. If they don't, however, then Padmapper should just adapt and become mobile-exclusive, or try to generate their own apartment listings instead of depending on Craigslist.
bigiain 14y ago
It's pretty easy to assert that Craigslist is somehow disrespecting their users - perhaps by having poor UI - but it's harder to prove that assertion by setting up a competing service with your idea of a "better UI" for the users. It seems abundantly clear to me that the assertion that "A competitor to Craigslist who got $x right would easily get all Craigslist's users", for any of the usually mentioned values of $x [web design, UI, UX, customer service, search, API, other services using their API, …] - is nothing more than a head-in-the-sand misapprehension on the part of startup/web design/UI people. Craigslist _users_ have not "jumped ship" en-mass to any technically or graphically "better" alternative - and it's hardly from lack of trying by people who're _sure_ they will. I think sometimes we need to get out of the HN/startup/bay-area echo chamber - I'm pretty sure Newmarket and his crew have a much different view of what their user base wants than any assumptions made by the HN zeitgeist…
- jacoblyles 14y ago
  Do you understand the concept of "monopoly power"? It sounds like you do not. I, personally, save several hours every time I look for an apartment by using padmapper over Craigslist. Aggregated, that's human lifetimes of time saved every year by padmapper. UI isn't about round corners and fancy color schemes. It's about using computers to automate repetitive behaviors. Newmark's defenders tell me what I really want is to waste my limited lifetime clicking manually through entries on his shitty site. But no, I really don't. Fuck Craigslist. Seriously.

dredmorbius 14y ago

Craigslist aren't doing this strictly out of the kindness of their hearts. By charging for only a small number of listing, CL accomplish two things: 1. They create a large marketplace, which by virtue of its size provides more value than if it were a smaller, more diversified set of markets. 2. It "sucks the oxygen out of the room" for any competitor attempting to create a similar service. There are a few other commerce-related online sites -- eBay, Amazon, iTunes store, etc., and even a few competing specialized listings services (jobs, apartments, etc.) -- but none that specifically serve the general classifieds market. I do suspect that there's a genuine component to CL's community service mission. But that doesn't mean the self-serving aspects of its behavior are any less valid.