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I'm genuinely shocked. I assumed that Apple would have foreseen this possibility and locked the Persona's eyes somewhere as long as the user was typing, at leas
by LorenDB 2y ago
I'm genuinely shocked. I assumed that Apple would have foreseen this possibility and locked the Persona's eyes somewhere as long as the user was typing, at least for passwords.
- generalizations 2y agoWhole point of the digital face is to look real though, and freezing the gaze would look unnervingly fake.
- LorenDB 2y agoBut you could at least dampen out or randomize eye travel while looking at the keyboard. Fully reproducing eye output is a recipe for disaster, and that should have been obvious.
- fidotron 2y agoOTOH once you as an outsider know that sometimes the AVP is lying to you about where the wearer is looking why would you ever trust it? For example, you could then use the AVP to stare at people and then claim afterwards you were doing no such thing.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y agoAdd a faint glow to indicate they're typing and the continued face animation is a stand-in.
- parasubvert 2y agoIt's about tradeoffs, the device is barely 7 months old at this point. Thankfully the fix is fairly obvious too.
- dylan604 2y agoThrow people for a loop and switch your headset keyboard to DVORAK. When they scan your eye movements and apply to QWERTY, they'll be confused AF!
- jrockway 2y agoWell, you still only have to try one other password. If you get locked out after one password attempt and nobody knows that you use dvorak, your defense works, but if you have three attempts, you can also add colemak to your list of things to try ;)
- kobalsky 2y agoadd sunglasses to the avatar while typing
- p1necone 2y agoSomeone hire this person please.
- throw10920 2y agoIt would, wouldn't it? I'd suggest blurring the face in a "password input context" (like password fields on the web with their redacted display text), but I suspect that that'd go against what Apple wants the Vision Pro experience to look like.
- dwallin 2y agoI'm confident they could come up with a filler eye animation algorithm that was convincing enough to pass muster for short periods of time. Even if hand coding something didn't quite work out, they certainly have tons of eye tracking data internally they could use to train a small model, or optimize parameters.
- dTal 2y agoThe complexity of this solution just shot up from "2 minute hack" to "2 month research project, minimum". It's understandable why they didn't do this.
- withinboredom 2y agoI don't think anyone was suggesting to go for the 'parameterized model' from the start. They could just hide the eyes while typing, as a good starting point.
- paulryanrogers 2y agoYeah. Make them appear closed, done
- underdeserver 2y agoNo way this takes two months to get to a convincing proof of concept.
- sli 2y agoIf I were implementing it and wanted to obscure, I'd blur the whole screen momentarily, probably with a small message. I really doubt that's ideal for a commercial offering, though. I'm not really worried about unnerving people if I'm using an avatar, that comes with the territory as it is.
- magicalhippo 2y agoJust have them close their eyes? That's what I do when I have to recall my password anyway.
- darby_nine 2y agoThen it shouldn't be used for secure input.
- bsza 2y agoWhy? Most people are capable of fixating at a single point with basically no perceptible eye movement.
- JamesSwift 2y agoJust do the same thing the external display does and do a 'cloudy eyes' version when they user is interacting w/ the keyboard.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- talldayo 2y ago> I assumed Oh man, this is my favorite part of the Apple Design Cycle! 1. Apple announces a new feature that is suspiciously invasive and only marginally useful (eg. iCloud Screening, Find My, OCSP, etc.) 2. Self-conscious, Apple releases a security whitepaper that explains how things should work but doesn't let anyone audit their system 3. Users assume that things are okay because the marketing tells them it is okay, and do not ever consider the potential for an exploit 4. The data leaks, either to advertisers, Apple employees, warrantless government allies, government adversaries or OEM contractors 5. Apple customers attempt to absolve themselves of responsibility ("How was I supposed to know?") I've seen this process so many times at this point that I'm just apathetic to it all. Maybe one day people will learn to stop assuming the best when there is literally no evidence corroborating it.
- KerrAvon 2y agoWhat data leaks? What are you talking about?
- talldayo 2y agohttps://www.ifixit.com/News/33801/apple-genius-caught-stealing-sensitive-photos-despite-claims-that-independent-repair-is-risky https://www.ifixit.com/News/33801/apple-genius-caught-steali... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-secretly-giving-governments-push-notification-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-... https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/445122/is-icloud-private-relay-leaking-my-dns-queries-to-my-isp https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/445122/is-icloud-p... Various oversight issues of that nature. Note: we could know about all of these exploits before-hand if Apple's supposedly-private infrastructure was meaningfully accountable.
- KaiserPro 2y agoThey released airtags without thinking about stalking, so I'm not that shocked.
- thebruce87m 2y agoThis has to be a lie made on purpose since it is so easily proven wrong. Here is the keynote: https://www.youtube.com/live/JdBYVNuky1M?si=46vw7FG3SjWWBezn https://www.youtube.com/live/JdBYVNuky1M?si=46vw7FG3SjWWBezn 9.25 is when they talk about unwanted tracking.
- KaiserPro 2y agoOk, if you want me to be more specific. (Given that we are talking about keynotes, which are, by design, marketing mistruths. ) They thought a bit about stalking, but not enough to alter the experience, or release tools for non-apple owners to avoid being tracked. Sure, there are some "industry leading features" but no-one else in industry decided to co-opt a network of ~1 billion devices to provide location updates. Sure Apple made it very difficult to track an airtag on a person, for the owner's privacy. But that also means that the non-owner is less able to find it. It takes about 3-5 days (although its been up to two weeks in some cases) before my various iphones twig that an errant airtag is with me. Now you might see me as someone who is anti apple, or has an agenda against apple. Thats not the case. The issue is, when you create a device like this, and marry it to such a capable platform, you have to own the side effects. It took something like _6 months_ to release an android airtag detector. Which means it was very much an after thought. Had they talked to any Domestic Violence support groups, they would have told them very clearly how these devices would be used. (I suspect they did, but that would destroy the product vision too much, so it was downgraded. )
- nicolas_17 2y agoWhat?? It had much better anti-stalking features at launch than its competitors like Tile.
- KaiserPro 2y ago
- KerrAvon 2y agoPlease note this is fixed: > The researchers alerted Apple to the vulnerability in April, and the company issued a patch to stop the potential for data to leak at the end of July