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Woah, I expected you to get to the point that concerted effort, legislation and better technology is the only thing which will lower carbon dioxide outputs. Ins

Woah, I expected you to get to the point that concerted effort, legislation and better technology is the only thing which will lower carbon dioxide outputs. Instead I got fatalism. :-P

surgical_fire 2y ago
He is not entirely wrong. The last to starve will be the first to suffocate.
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  No of course not, but with enough people choosing the fatalistic approach, they will be right by fiat. (Almost the same can be said for all more positive approaches, except we can't know for sure they will work, we can only hope. This goes for everything in life. Only Death and allegedly Taxes are certain.)
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    We are making some progress towards a greener future with the plummeting birth rates. I wonder if that contains some sort of feedback loop. Otherwise we are not making any real progress. We certainly pretend that we are though.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      We have slowed down the acceleration of Co2, so that's proof we can do something. Maybe also dirt cheap solar will at some point make a dent. A huge problem is fertilizer made from fossil fuels.
Yizahi 2y ago
You can check CO2 level meter in the atmosphere over past half a century, to see that "concerted effort, legislation and better technology" not only did jack shit to the actual CO2 levels, but the rate of increase is also increasing last years (accelerating). Until governments start collectively implementing policies which actually contain or reduce climate change, instead of greenwashing and shifting blame overseas, fatalism is probably the only valid approach, despite how dumb it is. And don't get this old song about personal improvements etc. In no universe individual humans can invent and scale DAC, or deploy giant sunshields, or spread sulphur in the troposphere over thousands of flights. And anything else is pointless really.
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  I think people only started to really believe in global warming the last 10 years. So I don't think there has been much effort so far. (Except as you point out, effort in greenwashing.)
paulcole 2y ago
It’s not fatalism. It’s the reality we live in. If you think there’s going to be some great concerted effort and legislation and magic new technology coming, get real. If you want to “fix” climate change then a lot of people are going to need to decide to make massive shifts in how they live. And that just isn’t going to happen by choice. But do keep dreaming about that technology that lets us keep living as wastefully as we do.

Woah, I expected you to get to the point that concerted effort, legislation and better technology is the only thing which will lower carbon dioxide outputs. Instead I got fatalism. :-P

surgical_fire 2y ago

He is not entirely wrong. The last to starve will be the first to suffocate.

actionfromafar 2y ago
No of course not, but with enough people choosing the fatalistic approach, they will be right by fiat. (Almost the same can be said for all more positive approaches, except we can't know for sure they will work, we can only hope. This goes for everything in life. Only Death and allegedly Taxes are certain.)
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  We are making some progress towards a greener future with the plummeting birth rates. I wonder if that contains some sort of feedback loop. Otherwise we are not making any real progress. We certainly pretend that we are though.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    We have slowed down the acceleration of Co2, so that's proof we can do something. Maybe also dirt cheap solar will at some point make a dent. A huge problem is fertilizer made from fossil fuels.

Yizahi 2y ago

You can check CO2 level meter in the atmosphere over past half a century, to see that "concerted effort, legislation and better technology" not only did jack shit to the actual CO2 levels, but the rate of increase is also increasing last years (accelerating). Until governments start collectively implementing policies which actually contain or reduce climate change, instead of greenwashing and shifting blame overseas, fatalism is probably the only valid approach, despite how dumb it is. And don't get this old song about personal improvements etc. In no universe individual humans can invent and scale DAC, or deploy giant sunshields, or spread sulphur in the troposphere over thousands of flights. And anything else is pointless really.

actionfromafar 2y ago
I think people only started to really believe in global warming the last 10 years. So I don't think there has been much effort so far. (Except as you point out, effort in greenwashing.)

paulcole 2y ago

It’s not fatalism. It’s the reality we live in. If you think there’s going to be some great concerted effort and legislation and magic new technology coming, get real. If you want to “fix” climate change then a lot of people are going to need to decide to make massive shifts in how they live. And that just isn’t going to happen by choice. But do keep dreaming about that technology that lets us keep living as wastefully as we do.