7 ms·

How are these even legal?

STRML 2y ago
I 100% agree. Just wait until you hear about NYPD challenge coins. [1] Pg. 21 shows us a coin that celebrates an absolutely despicable story where the NYPD forcibly committed a whistleblower to a mental hospital. 1. https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  That's a very depressing list of badges.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
sandworm101 2y ago
Its just a card. The illegal part is how the nypd (and others) treat the cards. It is less corrupt than other systems. Massachusetts has a system of special vip license plates to prevent influential people from being pulled over in the first place.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  The only reason the card (or any other signifier) would exist is to facilitate corruption.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - acdha 2y ago
      These cards aren’t memorabilia, they’re explicitly made to evade punishment for breaking the law. That’s why they have the name: “professional courtesy”, asking an officer not to enforce the law against someone in their tribe.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > cards aren’t memorabilia, they’re explicitly made to evade punishment for breaking the law Sure. What makes that distinction is the action. The problem isn’t police memorabilia, it’s the way these cards are being respected.
        acdha 2y ago
        I don’t think these are just memorabilia- they have that, too, but these were specifically designed to request officers change their professional behavior, hence the name. If they declined to pull over someone with an FOP sticker that’s also bad but there is a better argument that a membership sticker has meaning other than something you keep in your wallet except when you need special treatment from an officer on duty.
  - sandworm101 2y ago
    And military family cards? ABA cards? How about cards from political parties? The corruption is in how the cops react to such things. (Back in the day, the Hells Angels also issued thankyou cards, although how cops would react is questionable.)
    - mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
      In what context does "who I'm related to" have a non-corrupt genuine bearing on whether I've broken a law and deserve citation for my (in)actions?
      - sandworm101 2y ago
        Being stopped by cops is about far more than a traffic violation. Traffic stops are the points at which police most often interact with the public. A cop has to decide how much work to put into a stop, how much non-traffic procedure to follow. Is the person dangerous? Do I need to call for backup before proceeding? Do I check to see if the car is stolen? Do I check for license and insurance? Do I check for warrants? Do I check for out-of-state warrants? Is there an immigration issue? Each extends the stop, which nobody wants. A card that proves a person is employed in certain jobs (military) or is friends with a local officer will cause most cops to save time by not running through all the checks they might otherwise run. Two people go through border security, one just a random person and the other is carrying a military passport. One will breeze through security and the other might not.
        mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
        You answered a question I didn't ask, which is "what biases are present in the system that exists today". Whether any of what you describe is either just or justified is still not discussed. Why *should* a military passport (or my relative is a cop, or my government ID, or my Boy Scout badge, or my jacket patch for that band you love, or my sports jersey, or my bumper sticker) alter how someone evaluates whether I have broken a law or pose a security threat? I'm not asking why fallible, busy, and sometimes immoral people behave as if it does. I'm asking why it should.
- handelaar 2y ago
  That is nonsense. The cards have no non-corrupt reasons to exist.
- throwaway1055fd 2y ago
  [flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bell-cot 2y ago
  Yep. There are lots of rotten police, and rotten police practices, in American. And many other nations. Obsessing over these cards, because they're oh-so-visual and push people's buttons, is a "whack any white mole, which appears in this specific spot, if the sun is currently shining here" approach. Maybe it feels good, and success is incredibly easy - the moles learn fast - but it won't do squat to reduce your yard's horrible mole problem.
Loughla 2y ago
Seriously though. They're literally get out of jail free cards. They're laminated and full color corruption. How is this allowed?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
caslon 2y ago
Have you ever been pulled over by a cop and given a warning? Many people have. As long as there's any amount of leeway in enforcement of the law, things like courtesy cards will exist. All it is is a little nudge to say, "Hey. I'm one of you and yours. Let's let it slide." That will continue to exist even if the cards entirely disappear.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Formal corruption like this is a show of force by the enforcers that they are above others. It’s also useful for cops figure out which other cops will cover for them, rather than apply the law fairly (see article).
- IggleSniggle 2y ago
  Letting it slide is one thing. Letting it slide because of who someone is, is something else entirely. Just because the behavior will continue to exist doesn't mean it should be actively encouraged or systemized.
- sandworm101 2y ago
  Most of the time when a "warning" is given it is because the cop doesnt have sufficient evidence for a ticket. Dont tell the cop how fast you were driving. If they ask, the probably dont know.
- janice1999 2y ago
  This isn't about police exercising their judgement. It's about creating a privileged class who are above the law. This is gang behaviour.
  - dole 2y ago
    Takes a criminal to catch one, as they say. Deputy gangs have been around since the 1970's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs
  - caslon 2y ago
lr4444lr 2y ago
There's an underlying presumption to your question that all stops are fair in the first place. Many are officers trying to make quota. Occasionally an egregious violation is waved and the person goes on to hurt someone, but most are speed or seatbelt traps.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  > There's an underlying presumption to your question that all stops are fair in the first place "Driving while black" comes to mind. > Many are officers trying to make quota. This is another thing that should never exist.
michaelt 2y ago
Once an organisation becomes corrupt enough, it becomes exceptionally hard to root out the corruption - even if you're politically powerful, like a state governor. All the cops who didn't like corruption have been chased out - a process this article shows in action. All the people who think the culture is unconscionable have quit. Every new hire is trained by people who will tell them "it's normal, everyone does it". And all the leadership, even if they don't engage in corruption themselves, have ignored it or covered it up. If you're the governor and you decide to crack down on corrupt cops? The cops can simply stop dealing with certain highly visible crimes, claiming they're too busy or whatever. And sure, you can fire some of them - but all the replacements are also implicated in corruption. Meanwhile, voters don't care about the political minutiae and blame-shifting, all they know is under governor Chris_wot they don't feel safe walking the streets, they want someone tough on crime. You lose the election to your opponent, who gives the cops MRAPs, AR-15s and a license to kill; and suddenly the cops have time to deal with those highly visible crimes. The trick to avoiding this is that you've got to root out corruption early - before the honest people have been driven out.

I 100% agree. Just wait until you hear about NYPD challenge coins. [1] Pg. 21 shows us a coin that celebrates an absolutely despicable story where the NYPD forcibly committed a whistleblower to a mental hospital. 1. https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf

actionfromafar 2y ago
That's a very depressing list of badges.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

sandworm101 2y ago

Its just a card. The illegal part is how the nypd (and others) treat the cards. It is less corrupt than other systems. Massachusetts has a system of special vip license plates to prevent influential people from being pulled over in the first place.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
The only reason the card (or any other signifier) would exist is to facilitate corruption.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - acdha 2y ago
    These cards aren’t memorabilia, they’re explicitly made to evade punishment for breaking the law. That’s why they have the name: “professional courtesy”, asking an officer not to enforce the law against someone in their tribe.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > cards aren’t memorabilia, they’re explicitly made to evade punishment for breaking the law Sure. What makes that distinction is the action. The problem isn’t police memorabilia, it’s the way these cards are being respected.
      - acdha 2y ago
        I don’t think these are just memorabilia- they have that, too, but these were specifically designed to request officers change their professional behavior, hence the name. If they declined to pull over someone with an FOP sticker that’s also bad but there is a better argument that a membership sticker has meaning other than something you keep in your wallet except when you need special treatment from an officer on duty.
- sandworm101 2y ago
  And military family cards? ABA cards? How about cards from political parties? The corruption is in how the cops react to such things. (Back in the day, the Hells Angels also issued thankyou cards, although how cops would react is questionable.)
  - mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
    In what context does "who I'm related to" have a non-corrupt genuine bearing on whether I've broken a law and deserve citation for my (in)actions?
    - sandworm101 2y ago
      Being stopped by cops is about far more than a traffic violation. Traffic stops are the points at which police most often interact with the public. A cop has to decide how much work to put into a stop, how much non-traffic procedure to follow. Is the person dangerous? Do I need to call for backup before proceeding? Do I check to see if the car is stolen? Do I check for license and insurance? Do I check for warrants? Do I check for out-of-state warrants? Is there an immigration issue? Each extends the stop, which nobody wants. A card that proves a person is employed in certain jobs (military) or is friends with a local officer will cause most cops to save time by not running through all the checks they might otherwise run. Two people go through border security, one just a random person and the other is carrying a military passport. One will breeze through security and the other might not.
      - mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
        You answered a question I didn't ask, which is "what biases are present in the system that exists today". Whether any of what you describe is either just or justified is still not discussed. Why *should* a military passport (or my relative is a cop, or my government ID, or my Boy Scout badge, or my jacket patch for that band you love, or my sports jersey, or my bumper sticker) alter how someone evaluates whether I have broken a law or pose a security threat? I'm not asking why fallible, busy, and sometimes immoral people behave as if it does. I'm asking why it should.
handelaar 2y ago
That is nonsense. The cards have no non-corrupt reasons to exist.
throwaway1055fd 2y ago
[flagged]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bell-cot 2y ago
Yep. There are lots of rotten police, and rotten police practices, in American. And many other nations. Obsessing over these cards, because they're oh-so-visual and push people's buttons, is a "whack any white mole, which appears in this specific spot, if the sun is currently shining here" approach. Maybe it feels good, and success is incredibly easy - the moles learn fast - but it won't do squat to reduce your yard's horrible mole problem.

Loughla 2y ago

Seriously though. They're literally get out of jail free cards. They're laminated and full color corruption. How is this allowed?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

caslon 2y ago

Have you ever been pulled over by a cop and given a warning? Many people have. As long as there's any amount of leeway in enforcement of the law, things like courtesy cards will exist. All it is is a little nudge to say, "Hey. I'm one of you and yours. Let's let it slide." That will continue to exist even if the cards entirely disappear.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
Formal corruption like this is a show of force by the enforcers that they are above others. It’s also useful for cops figure out which other cops will cover for them, rather than apply the law fairly (see article).
IggleSniggle 2y ago
Letting it slide is one thing. Letting it slide because of who someone is, is something else entirely. Just because the behavior will continue to exist doesn't mean it should be actively encouraged or systemized.
sandworm101 2y ago
Most of the time when a "warning" is given it is because the cop doesnt have sufficient evidence for a ticket. Dont tell the cop how fast you were driving. If they ask, the probably dont know.
janice1999 2y ago
This isn't about police exercising their judgement. It's about creating a privileged class who are above the law. This is gang behaviour.
- dole 2y ago
  Takes a criminal to catch one, as they say. Deputy gangs have been around since the 1970's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs
- caslon 2y ago

lr4444lr 2y ago

There's an underlying presumption to your question that all stops are fair in the first place. Many are officers trying to make quota. Occasionally an egregious violation is waved and the person goes on to hurt someone, but most are speed or seatbelt traps.

rbanffy 2y ago
> There's an underlying presumption to your question that all stops are fair in the first place "Driving while black" comes to mind. > Many are officers trying to make quota. This is another thing that should never exist.

michaelt 2y ago

Once an organisation becomes corrupt enough, it becomes exceptionally hard to root out the corruption - even if you're politically powerful, like a state governor. All the cops who didn't like corruption have been chased out - a process this article shows in action. All the people who think the culture is unconscionable have quit. Every new hire is trained by people who will tell them "it's normal, everyone does it". And all the leadership, even if they don't engage in corruption themselves, have ignored it or covered it up. If you're the governor and you decide to crack down on corrupt cops? The cops can simply stop dealing with certain highly visible crimes, claiming they're too busy or whatever. And sure, you can fire some of them - but all the replacements are also implicated in corruption. Meanwhile, voters don't care about the political minutiae and blame-shifting, all they know is under governor Chris_wot they don't feel safe walking the streets, they want someone tough on crime. You lose the election to your opponent, who gives the cops MRAPs, AR-15s and a license to kill; and suddenly the cops have time to deal with those highly visible crimes. The trick to avoiding this is that you've got to root out corruption early - before the honest people have been driven out.