7 ms·
Officer who ignored NYPD's 'courtesy cards' receives $175K settlement
- chris_wot 2y agoHow are these even legal?
- STRML 2y agoI 100% agree. Just wait until you hear about NYPD challenge coins. [1] Pg. 21 shows us a coin that celebrates an absolutely despicable story where the NYPD forcibly committed a whistleblower to a mental hospital. 1. https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf
- actionfromafar 2y agoThat's a very depressing list of badges.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sandworm101 2y agoIts just a card. The illegal part is how the nypd (and others) treat the cards. It is less corrupt than other systems. Massachusetts has a system of special vip license plates to prevent influential people from being pulled over in the first place.
- lotsofpulp 2y agoThe only reason the card (or any other signifier) would exist is to facilitate corruption.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- acdha 2y agoThese cards aren’t memorabilia, they’re explicitly made to evade punishment for breaking the law. That’s why they have the name: “professional courtesy”, asking an officer not to enforce the law against someone in their tribe.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> cards aren’t memorabilia, they’re explicitly made to evade punishment for breaking the law Sure. What makes that distinction is the action. The problem isn’t police memorabilia, it’s the way these cards are being respected.
- acdha 2y agoI don’t think these are just memorabilia- they have that, too, but these were specifically designed to request officers change their professional behavior, hence the name. If they declined to pull over someone with an FOP sticker that’s also bad but there is a better argument that a membership sticker has meaning other than something you keep in your wallet except when you need special treatment from an officer on duty.
- sandworm101 2y agoAnd military family cards? ABA cards? How about cards from political parties? The corruption is in how the cops react to such things. (Back in the day, the Hells Angels also issued thankyou cards, although how cops would react is questionable.)
- mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
- handelaar 2y agoThat is nonsense. The cards have no non-corrupt reasons to exist.
- throwaway1055fd 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- bell-cot 2y agoYep. There are lots of rotten police, and rotten police practices, in American. And many other nations. Obsessing over these cards, because they're oh-so-visual and push people's buttons, is a "whack any white mole, which appears in this specific spot, if the sun is currently shining here" approach. Maybe it feels good, and success is incredibly easy - the moles learn fast - but it won't do squat to reduce your yard's horrible mole problem.
- Loughla 2y agoSeriously though. They're literally get out of jail free cards. They're laminated and full color corruption. How is this allowed?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- caslon 2y agoHave you ever been pulled over by a cop and given a warning? Many people have. As long as there's any amount of leeway in enforcement of the law, things like courtesy cards will exist. All it is is a little nudge to say, "Hey. I'm one of you and yours. Let's let it slide." That will continue to exist even if the cards entirely disappear.
- lotsofpulp 2y agoFormal corruption like this is a show of force by the enforcers that they are above others. It’s also useful for cops figure out which other cops will cover for them, rather than apply the law fairly (see article).
- IggleSniggle 2y agoLetting it slide is one thing. Letting it slide because of who someone is, is something else entirely. Just because the behavior will continue to exist doesn't mean it should be actively encouraged or systemized.
- sandworm101 2y agoMost of the time when a "warning" is given it is because the cop doesnt have sufficient evidence for a ticket. Dont tell the cop how fast you were driving. If they ask, the probably dont know.
- janice1999 2y agoThis isn't about police exercising their judgement. It's about creating a privileged class who are above the law. This is gang behaviour.
- lr4444lr 2y agoThere's an underlying presumption to your question that all stops are fair in the first place. Many are officers trying to make quota. Occasionally an egregious violation is waved and the person goes on to hurt someone, but most are speed or seatbelt traps.
- rbanffy 2y ago> There's an underlying presumption to your question that all stops are fair in the first place "Driving while black" comes to mind. > Many are officers trying to make quota. This is another thing that should never exist.
- michaelt 2y agoOnce an organisation becomes corrupt enough, it becomes exceptionally hard to root out the corruption - even if you're politically powerful, like a state governor. All the cops who didn't like corruption have been chased out - a process this article shows in action. All the people who think the culture is unconscionable have quit. Every new hire is trained by people who will tell them "it's normal, everyone does it". And all the leadership, even if they don't engage in corruption themselves, have ignored it or covered it up. If you're the governor and you decide to crack down on corrupt cops? The cops can simply stop dealing with certain highly visible crimes, claiming they're too busy or whatever. And sure, you can fire some of them - but all the replacements are also implicated in corruption. Meanwhile, voters don't care about the political minutiae and blame-shifting, all they know is under governor Chris_wot they don't feel safe walking the streets, they want someone tough on crime. You lose the election to your opponent, who gives the cops MRAPs, AR-15s and a license to kill; and suddenly the cops have time to deal with those highly visible crimes. The trick to avoiding this is that you've got to root out corruption early - before the honest people have been driven out.
- theoreticalmal 2y agoWhat an incredibly dishonorable practice. Police should be ashamed to even touch those cards, let alone give them out
- frob 2y agoThe fact that they aren't ashamed at all but instead punish those who don't play along with their corrupt game tells you a whole lot about the NYPD.
- rbanffy 2y agoIt tells me it needs to be refounded. Everyone complicit with this should be removed and punished exemplarily (NY might need to build a couple extra jails for all those people).
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago$175k isn't much for basically getting your career ended
- kreetx 2y agoDon't know what police officers make, but perhaps it gives a long enough runway?
- acdha 2y agoThat’s 1-2 years for an NYPD officer. It’s enough to find another job … except that the code of omertà runs strong and they might have trouble finding a police force which will hire them. Unlike an officer who kills a civilian, who will easily find new work, this is seen as a crime against the profession.
- nullindividual 2y agoThat’s less than a year’s salary for most Seattle PD officers.
- acdha 2y agoMy understanding for the NYPD is that the base average is roughly $90k but most of them are killing it on overtime.
- grugagag 2y agoRunway for what? Will this guy receive a city pension? Will he have the perks retired NYPD officers have? I hope he gets hired back as a top brass.
- bayouborne 2y ago"..the nine-year veteran of the force.." 11 more years is a long time to spend as a pariah. Then again it took a strong belief in ethics to do what he did, and he had to have chosen to go in this direction with his eyes open. Hopefully he's strong in other ways, because I would imagine it's going to be hard on the streets effectively alone.
- ldoughty 2y ago> “It’s a form of corruption,” he said by phone Tuesday. “My approach to how I handle them is not going to change, even if some boss is going to try to punish me. I’m still going to go out there and I’m going to do exactly what I feel is right.” Give him a promotion. This is 100% corruption. No doubt these are also sold by some cops
- robnado 2y agoEven if they are only used by family members of cops, this is still nepotism and should be punished. There is no valid reason for these cards to exist. Maybe I am naïve, but I still think that the law should apply equally to everyone.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y agoI know a retired NYPD officer who would hand them out to non-family as Christmas gifts every year.
- Ekaros 2y agoI don't even think law should apply equally. I believe elected officials and people in roles like police or in legal system should be always held to absolutely highest impossible standards.
- wccrawford 2y agoWhile I tend to agree, it would mean that criminals would use it to harass cops, which would end up having the opposite effect. More corruption, instead of less. So they should be held to the same standards as everyone else, which is a safe, sane compromise between those ends.
- hiddencost 2y ago[flagged]
- neallindsay 2y ago
- dang 2y agoRelated. Others? Traffic cop sues city for get-out-of-jail-free cards for NYPD friends and family - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36188406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36188406 - June 2023 (47 comments) The Little Cards That Tell Police 'Let's Forget This Ever Happened' (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638962 - Nov 2022 (43 comments) NYC Police Union Reducing Number of “Get Out of Jail Free” Courtesy Cards (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30742209 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30742209 - March 2022 (32 comments) Police-issued "courtesy cards" help friends and family out of minor infractions - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24353003 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24353003 - Sept 2020 (435 comments) “Get Out of Jail Free” Cards in New York - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16207890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16207890 - Jan 2018 (207 comments) NYC Police union slashes number of ‘get out of jail free’ cards issued - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16201487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16201487 - Jan 2018 (2 comments)
- soco 2y agoNaive me really thought until today that "get out of jail card" was some kind of internet/cultural/US/insider joke...
- plasticchris 2y agoCalifornia highway patrol had some license plate holders that would prevent them from pulling you over, but that took a hit some time back when counterfeits hit the market. CHP 11-99 club issued them.
- josefresco 2y agoIf you aren't scared of the NYPD you aren't paying attention. A worldwide(1) force that often blurs lines between law enforcement and "cartel" behavior. 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/nyregion/terrorism-nypd-intelligence-crime.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/nyregion/terrorism-nypd-i... Speaking of, this just broke: "The NYPD Is Tossing Out Hundreds of Misconduct Cases — Including Stop-and-Frisks — Without Even Looking at Them" https://www.propublica.org/article/nypd-tossed-out-police-misconduct-discipline-cases-edward-caban https://www.propublica.org/article/nypd-tossed-out-police-mi...
- grugagag 2y agoLets not forget NYPD is just a drop in the bucket, the police is the whole US is wildly corrupted.
- wickedsight 2y agoIt's not just Police, it's judges and politicians too.
- grugagag 2y agoQuite possibly, I don’t doubt that. That still doesn’t change the fact that police is in dire need of reform.
- dzonga 2y agois that not the job of the FBI ? why does city police need a worldwide presence ?
- justinclift 2y agoHmmm, seems like they're not individually numbered/tracked. So, someone with a colour printer and the right template could distribute them at-will. ;)
- ceejayoz 2y agoThey have the issuing officer's name phone number on them, and you're encouraged to call and verify it. I suspect being found to have a fake one is... frowned upon.
- justinclift 2y agoWell, if someone's going to go to the effort of counterfeiting them, they might as well put together a list of officers who have passed away and use those names. o_O
- ceejayoz 2y agoNow you’re getting thumped because the dead officer was their buddy and you can’t tell one anecdote about them. There are riskier games to play, but not all that many.
- justinclift 2y agoMeh, it's pretty easy. "My wife gave me the card, just in case." That'll generally only go wrong if you're not married. ;)
- readthenotes1 2y agoIt's not even noble cause corruption. Graft, plain and simple
- HL33tibCe7 2y agoThis is banana republic level corruption. How is this allowed to continue in a serious 1st world country?
- fakedang 2y agoI'm pretty certain this is an NYPD thing. Other PDs would have something similar too, but I don't think this is a pan-US thing. Of course, in certain places, you wouldn't even need a card, just let yourself be known as a cop's relative or a judge's kid.
- actionfromafar 2y agoThese cards are distributed like candy for favors. The judge typically don't have 100 kids.
- estebarb 2y agoI get that "banana republic" is often used to describe corrupt countries, but this overlooks the fact that much of the corruption was imposed by foreign powers, particularly the United Fruit Company with the backing of the U.S. government. These countries didn’t choose corruption; they were often forced into it through military intervention, economic pressure, and violence. The United Fruit Company, with U.S. support, orchestrated coups (like in Guatemala in 1954), suppressed labor movements (e.g., the 1928 Banana Massacre in Colombia), and funded paramilitary groups. The so-called "corruption" was largely a result of foreign exploitation, not internal failings. So, when you say "banana republic level corruption," you're actually talking about imperialist practices imposed by the U.S.—the very first-world country you’re wondering about. Sources: - Banana giant held liable for funding paramilitaries: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6pprpd3x96o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6pprpd3x96o - The Dark Side of Bananas: Imperialism, Non-State Actors, and Power: https://hir.harvard.edu/the-dark-side-of-bananas-imperialism-non-state-actors-and-power/ https://hir.harvard.edu/the-dark-side-of-bananas-imperialism...
- yencabulator 2y agoThe U.S. imperialism is what "banana republic" means! > In 1904, American author O. Henry coined the term[1][2] to describe Guatemala and Honduras under economic exploitation by U.S. corporations, such as the United Fruit Company (now Chiquita). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic
- chrisBob 2y agoPolice will always show some favoritism, but this seems to be a little over the line. I know that my Army Bronze Star license plate has gotten me out of problems before, and I know someone with a Purple Heart plate that pushed the military plate benefit to the limit. I understand the problem, but it is also really nice when it works in your favor.
- rbanffy 2y ago> it is also really nice when it works in your favor. It's still unfair. The law should apply equally to everyone.
- acdha 2y agoYes - this is an area where slippery slopes matter because once you say some people are allowed to break the law it’s inevitable that the scope will expand.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- petesergeant 2y agoYou received your Bronze Star plate for service to your country, though, not for giving a cop a discount at a restaurant.
- ceejayoz 2y ago> I know someone with a Purple Heart plate that pushed the military plate benefit to the limit. I'd be a little more on-board with the NYPD's cards if you had to get shot in service of the country to possess one.
- krapp 2y agoCorruption is always nice when it works in your favor, that's why it exists.
- diggan 2y ago> Bianchi said his views about the courtesy cards haven’t changed. The 40-year-old Staten Island-based officer said there should be more oversight over how many of the cards are distributed to officers Am I missing something or is that really backwards? They should get rid of these cards fully, not regulate how many are being distributed, seems to focus on a really weird solution.
- swalsh 2y agoThanks for helping me move, enjoy your free crime!
- wickedsight 2y ago[flagged]
- petesergeant 2y ago> another confirmation of how incredibly corrupt of a banana republic the US is I don’t think that’s at all a reasonable conclusion, but yes, low-level police graft needs to get stamped out, because what the actual fuck.
- giantg2 2y agoThis isn't low-level. This is institutionalized through the police union and being enforced throughout the organization, including knowledge of that enforcement at the highest levels. But yeah, banana republic is misapplied.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- wickedsight 2y ago[flagged]
- 2y ago
- datadrivenangel 2y agoIt's an interesting question of where we draw the line: diplomatic immunity in the form of embassy plates versus courtesy cards (obviously bad)
- lolinder 2y agoThe line seems pretty obvious—diplomatic immunity is a trade between sovereign states of "we won't harass your diplomats if you don't harass ours". It has negative repercussions but also has a clear gain for the state's interests. This is just corruption.
- rbanffy 2y agoAlso, even diplomatic immunity has limits.
- lolinder 2y agoWell, I'm sure this does too. It wouldn't last very long if someone murdered someone and got out of it because they had a plastic card that said they were a friend of an officer. At some point even NYC would intervene.
- acdha 2y agoYou wouldn’t see them not investigate but if he surprised if there wasn’t a quiet effort to write the report to support a self-defense narrative. Conflicts of interest around group loyalty don’t need to be explicit.
- smegger001 2y agoYeah its not like a diplomats wife can hit and kill a motorcyclists flee the scene and then country and on their return then be given a token sentence then have it immediately suspended. Oh wait...https://www.barrons.com/news/us-diplomat-s-wife-gets-suspended-sentence-for-fatal-uk-crash-01670517308 https://www.barrons.com/news/us-diplomat-s-wife-gets-suspend...
- K0balt 2y agoThis seems like something that an ambitious lawyer might pick up as a class action, since the very nature of these cards creates a class that benefits at the expense of a different class. Might be difficult to establish a fiduciary obligation, but I’m sure a gifted legal mind could find a way and an accounting.
- hiatus 2y agoThese cards are distributed by the police union. I can see it being argued that restricting distribution of these cards would be akin to restricting speech of the union.
- K0balt 2y agoHmmm… yeah I can see the problem there, and the “perks” while heavily implied are ephemeral from an organisational standpoint. So probably a no-go.
- hiatus 2y agoI appreciate the down votes for an unpopular opinion. Can associations give out membership cards? That's the fundamental issue and given the constitutional protection of free association I think it would be tough to argue against.
- muaytimbo 2y agoOne set of rules for the ruled and another for the rulers. This is well known, what’s new here?
- locallost 2y agoModern day Frank Serpico. I don't know why people in the comments are surprised this exists. I am sure there are many honest people in the police forces (around the world), but not all of them join because of some higher calling for justice and order. It's just a job, and jobs come with perks, in this case being above the law for minor things. If you disagree with that, then do something about it when you're in the position to.
- jeltz 2y agoMaybe not all of us are Americans?
- tialaramex 2y agoAlthough America does have a particular problem in that its police forces are descended from strike breakers and slave hunters, which is not a good recipe for how to achieve Peelian Policing†, it's far from alone in terms of the results. † Robert Peel was a Tory politician who founded the Metropolitan Police. Peel did a bunch of criminal reform stuff and one of his ideas was what we'd today called "Policing By Consent". As you may have noticed Britain's police don't (on the whole) have guns or armoured vehicles, they aren't paramilitaries or armed gangs, the only way they can be effective is if the community being policed consents to their activities and sees them as legitimate.
- locallost 2y agoI am not American either. What I wrote came as a direct observation and personal contact with non-american police, in two different countries.
- shrubble 2y agoStraight from Blade Runner, if you’re not a cop you’re “little people” Captain Harry Bryant: "Stop right where you are! You know the score, pal. You're not cop, you're little people“ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9lru1Qxc1l8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9lru1Qxc1l8
- jensenbox 2y agoWhat would happen if everyone had a card? Would it lose its value? Think of it like money. If you just print more does it have less value?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- iambateman 2y agoYou know what definitely doesn’t exist? Fake versions of these cards. There’s no way an enterprising college student would ever charge $25 for a knockoff get out of jail free card. Sarcasm aside, we are one nation under law. The NYPD needs to step up and accept the moral authority they’ve been given…they’re like an older brother to the other police departments in the country and they are watching.
- ckemere 2y agoI think the issue in NYC might be the police union rather than the organization per se. As described in the article the source and enforcement of this particular practice is the union. I’m actually quite sympathetic to unions- it seems like there are many scenarios where they would really help workers - improving scheduling, making pay more fair, demanding health care benefits. (And unions have done all these things in the past!) But it seems like sometimes there is capture by a cartel that creates and enforces anti-social behavior. In the case of police, once the cartel is established I don’t see how it can be broken. In a small town, you can just fire the whole department and start over, but short of bringing in the national guard while you trained new police, I don’t know how a city like NYC could do this. This is important because as we’ve already experienced in the post-2020 period, if enough people ignore the police union political endorsements, they will take collective action to reduce public safety. So the cartel (along with violent criminals obviously) effectively can make their own rules. One solution might be to demand that the majority of police working in a region/burrough/etc, actually lived there????
- dole 2y agoUsually limits the applicant pool down way too far. I know the PD in my city are having a hard time getting enough recruits as it is and are already running like 30% below the manpower they're "supposed" to have; they've relaxed long-standing residency requirements in recent years.
- csneeky 2y agoI've been given one by a member of the NYPD twice in the past couple of years. I've politely accepted it, put in my desk drawer, and I do not carry it. Always bothered me. Police culture in this city is fundamentally broken.
- hiatus 2y agoThat there is so much discretion at the roadside is the issue. Laws should be enforced uniformly and discretion afforded to the courts.
- prirun 2y agoThose in power are usually either corrupt from the get-go or end up that way. Best example I know of is the power given to governors and the President to pardon crimes, even after a jury trial. Blatent corruption.
- bastard_op 2y agoI can only imagine how many of these are sold, either as a bribe of some flavor, or literally just for hard cash because who doesn't want a get out of jail free card? They settled this because they didn't want dirty laundry aired, but this should be on headlines in news outlets everywhere. This should outrage people. I want a corrupt cop card too, especially with their badge and name of the offender on them! Years ago I read about this because they were being resold on ebay commonly, it disgusted me then, it still disgusts me now. So much for equal rights for all.