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When I hear people trying to use "Nonviolent Communication" it only makes me more angry. It is manipulation and so transparent and condescending. Sometimes com

When I hear people trying to use "Nonviolent Communication" it only makes me more angry. It is manipulation and so transparent and condescending. Sometimes communication needs to be violent.

callmeal 2y ago
I'm reminded of this supposedly ancient proverb I was taught in school: He who raises his voice first, loses.
- CRConrad 2y ago
  Yeah, we've all been taught a lot of BS in school.
radlad 2y ago
What makes you believe that nonviolent communication is manipulation? It focuses on ways to hear unmet needs in others and to express unmet needs in a way that can be heard by others. Have you read the book by chance?
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  Yes, read the book and my nephew teaches a form of it. It balmes the victim for the most part. It reminds of of"you are acting hysterical" and gaslighting. Maybe read some critiques about it. https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communication-can-be-emotionally-violent/ https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communica... https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-privileged/ https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-pr...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - sethammons 2y ago
    The first link, that is a big stretch and misses half the response. They almost capture it and then flub to spread wrong information. They got this far: "I notice that when your partner talks to other men, you express feeling hurt and ask her not to. It sounds like you feel hurt and maybe even betrayed when she has those conversations. I hear that respect is really important to you, and you want to feel valued in the relationship." What they totally missed: Suggesting alternative strategies that meet both parties' needs without harm. "Can we explore ways for both of you to feel respected, while also honoring her autonomy and connections with others?" This is NOT emotionally abusive to the woman or lower-powered individual in the exchange. This is acknowledging the emotions of the abuser and still coming back to honoring the woman's unmet needs. These techniques have been used between waring tribes with family that has been murdered. The book has a particularly harrowing passage about NVC saving a near-rape-and-murder victim. The second link is marginally better but I disagree on nearly every point. Instead of writing a counter post for each, but to say that overall I think they missed the message of the book. They seem set on the word choice and power dynamics. Word choice is mostly unrelated: it is conveying unmet needs and acknowledging the unmet needs of others. Simple as that. And then to go on about body language as a point against NVC is strange as the NVC is about spoken communication. They are digging for reasons to talk against the book. I assume there is some agenda.
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      >They are digging for reasons to talk against the book. I assume there is some agenda. You have an agenda as well. The problem is that you need BOTH parties to engage in NVC for it to work. and what happens is the person who does not want to use NVC is blamed. This is denying the person their agency.
      - sethammons 2y ago
        I feel that you desire agency on both parties. I believe that agency already exists. Like: "Let's play a game"; "I don't want to"; .... "ok?" NVC, yes, is a cooperative framework. The agency is to accept that, propose something different, or withdraw from communication. This has nothing to do with denying agency. It is tooling for communicating needs. I don't find the criticism to make sense. Perhaps you can help me understand by proposing an alternative or let me know where I am not understanding
  - radlad 2y ago
    I won't repeat what the sibling commenter has stated except to say that I agree that these authors seem to have missed the point. Anecdotally, my partner and I have found a ton of value in it within our relationship.
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      "Serenity now, insanity later." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJVIX-4OyT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJVIX-4OyT0
      - sethammons 2y ago
        in my quest to better understand your position, I once again believe you missed the point. I think you are suggesting that NVC is artificial and smooths over chaos that needs to be experienced else things go worse later. NVC is expressly about not repressing your feelings and letting them be known via your unmet needs. Again, if I got this wrong, you are invited to correct me. Mostly I'm just bored between meetings and not enough time to push anything productive forward and having a back and forth is pleasantly distracting. Might not reply again since work is nearly beckoning.
      - radlad 2y ago
        Well, it's been helpful to us for a few years. Unlike in the Seinfeld episode, NVC isn't about "bottling up" or keeping your emotions to yourself. It is explicitly the opposite: all about communicating unmet needs and finding shared understanding. I think both of us would say that we feel we have a better understanding of each other and a much stronger relationship as a result of NVC. YMMV of course!

When I hear people trying to use "Nonviolent Communication" it only makes me more angry. It is manipulation and so transparent and condescending. Sometimes communication needs to be violent.

callmeal 2y ago

I'm reminded of this supposedly ancient proverb I was taught in school: He who raises his voice first, loses.

CRConrad 2y ago
Yeah, we've all been taught a lot of BS in school.

radlad 2y ago

What makes you believe that nonviolent communication is manipulation? It focuses on ways to hear unmet needs in others and to express unmet needs in a way that can be heard by others. Have you read the book by chance?

FollowingTheDao 2y ago
Yes, read the book and my nephew teaches a form of it. It balmes the victim for the most part. It reminds of of"you are acting hysterical" and gaslighting. Maybe read some critiques about it. https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communication-can-be-emotionally-violent/ https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communica... https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-privileged/ https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-pr...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- sethammons 2y ago
  The first link, that is a big stretch and misses half the response. They almost capture it and then flub to spread wrong information. They got this far: "I notice that when your partner talks to other men, you express feeling hurt and ask her not to. It sounds like you feel hurt and maybe even betrayed when she has those conversations. I hear that respect is really important to you, and you want to feel valued in the relationship." What they totally missed: Suggesting alternative strategies that meet both parties' needs without harm. "Can we explore ways for both of you to feel respected, while also honoring her autonomy and connections with others?" This is NOT emotionally abusive to the woman or lower-powered individual in the exchange. This is acknowledging the emotions of the abuser and still coming back to honoring the woman's unmet needs. These techniques have been used between waring tribes with family that has been murdered. The book has a particularly harrowing passage about NVC saving a near-rape-and-murder victim. The second link is marginally better but I disagree on nearly every point. Instead of writing a counter post for each, but to say that overall I think they missed the message of the book. They seem set on the word choice and power dynamics. Word choice is mostly unrelated: it is conveying unmet needs and acknowledging the unmet needs of others. Simple as that. And then to go on about body language as a point against NVC is strange as the NVC is about spoken communication. They are digging for reasons to talk against the book. I assume there is some agenda.
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    >They are digging for reasons to talk against the book. I assume there is some agenda. You have an agenda as well. The problem is that you need BOTH parties to engage in NVC for it to work. and what happens is the person who does not want to use NVC is blamed. This is denying the person their agency.
    - sethammons 2y ago
      I feel that you desire agency on both parties. I believe that agency already exists. Like: "Let's play a game"; "I don't want to"; .... "ok?" NVC, yes, is a cooperative framework. The agency is to accept that, propose something different, or withdraw from communication. This has nothing to do with denying agency. It is tooling for communicating needs. I don't find the criticism to make sense. Perhaps you can help me understand by proposing an alternative or let me know where I am not understanding
- radlad 2y ago
  I won't repeat what the sibling commenter has stated except to say that I agree that these authors seem to have missed the point. Anecdotally, my partner and I have found a ton of value in it within our relationship.
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    "Serenity now, insanity later." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJVIX-4OyT0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJVIX-4OyT0
    - sethammons 2y ago
      in my quest to better understand your position, I once again believe you missed the point. I think you are suggesting that NVC is artificial and smooths over chaos that needs to be experienced else things go worse later. NVC is expressly about not repressing your feelings and letting them be known via your unmet needs. Again, if I got this wrong, you are invited to correct me. Mostly I'm just bored between meetings and not enough time to push anything productive forward and having a back and forth is pleasantly distracting. Might not reply again since work is nearly beckoning.
    - radlad 2y ago
      Well, it's been helpful to us for a few years. Unlike in the Seinfeld episode, NVC isn't about "bottling up" or keeping your emotions to yourself. It is explicitly the opposite: all about communicating unmet needs and finding shared understanding. I think both of us would say that we feel we have a better understanding of each other and a much stronger relationship as a result of NVC. YMMV of course!