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If this resonated with you, consider reading Nonviolent Communication by Rosenberg, the ultimate guide in thermostat-speak. You focus on stating unmet needs. Go

If this resonated with you, consider reading Nonviolent Communication by Rosenberg, the ultimate guide in thermostat-speak. You focus on stating unmet needs. Good stuff.

FollowingTheDao 2y ago
When I hear people trying to use "Nonviolent Communication" it only makes me more angry. It is manipulation and so transparent and condescending. Sometimes communication needs to be violent.
- callmeal 2y ago
  I'm reminded of this supposedly ancient proverb I was taught in school: He who raises his voice first, loses.
  - CRConrad 2y ago
    Yeah, we've all been taught a lot of BS in school.
- radlad 2y ago
  What makes you believe that nonviolent communication is manipulation? It focuses on ways to hear unmet needs in others and to express unmet needs in a way that can be heard by others. Have you read the book by chance?
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    Yes, read the book and my nephew teaches a form of it. It balmes the victim for the most part. It reminds of of"you are acting hysterical" and gaslighting. Maybe read some critiques about it. https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communication-can-be-emotionally-violent/ https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communica... https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-privileged/ https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-pr...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - sethammons 2y ago
      The first link, that is a big stretch and misses half the response. They almost capture it and then flub to spread wrong information. They got this far: "I notice that when your partner talks to other men, you express feeling hurt and ask her not to. It sounds like you feel hurt and maybe even betrayed when she has those conversations. I hear that respect is really important to you, and you want to feel valued in the relationship." What they totally missed: Suggesting alternative strategies that meet both parties' needs without harm. "Can we explore ways for both of you to feel respected, while also honoring her autonomy and connections with others?" This is NOT emotionally abusive to the woman or lower-powered individual in the exchange. This is acknowledging the emotions of the abuser and still coming back to honoring the woman's unmet needs. These techniques have been used between waring tribes with family that has been murdered. The book has a particularly harrowing passage about NVC saving a near-rape-and-murder victim. The second link is marginally better but I disagree on nearly every point. Instead of writing a counter post for each, but to say that overall I think they missed the message of the book. They seem set on the word choice and power dynamics. Word choice is mostly unrelated: it is conveying unmet needs and acknowledging the unmet needs of others. Simple as that. And then to go on about body language as a point against NVC is strange as the NVC is about spoken communication. They are digging for reasons to talk against the book. I assume there is some agenda.
      - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
        >They are digging for reasons to talk against the book. I assume there is some agenda. You have an agenda as well. The problem is that you need BOTH parties to engage in NVC for it to work. and what happens is the person who does not want to use NVC is blamed. This is denying the person their agency.
        sethammons 2y ago
        I feel that you desire agency on both parties. I believe that agency already exists. Like: "Let's play a game"; "I don't want to"; .... "ok?" NVC, yes, is a cooperative framework. The agency is to accept that, propose something different, or withdraw from communication. This has nothing to do with denying agency. It is tooling for communicating needs. I don't find the criticism to make sense. Perhaps you can help me understand by proposing an alternative or let me know where I am not understanding
nicbou 2y ago
I haven't read NVC, but "stating unmet needs" is a strong aspect of "No more Mr. Nice Guy" and "Models". Being up front about who you are and what you want is a lot more likely to work than being nice and hoping your needs are met in the way that you expect. It's also a way to cut your losses early if the other person is not interested in providing whatever you're after.

If this resonated with you, consider reading Nonviolent Communication by Rosenberg, the ultimate guide in thermostat-speak. You focus on stating unmet needs. Good stuff.

FollowingTheDao 2y ago

When I hear people trying to use "Nonviolent Communication" it only makes me more angry. It is manipulation and so transparent and condescending. Sometimes communication needs to be violent.

callmeal 2y ago
I'm reminded of this supposedly ancient proverb I was taught in school: He who raises his voice first, loses.
- CRConrad 2y ago
  Yeah, we've all been taught a lot of BS in school.
radlad 2y ago
What makes you believe that nonviolent communication is manipulation? It focuses on ways to hear unmet needs in others and to express unmet needs in a way that can be heard by others. Have you read the book by chance?
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  Yes, read the book and my nephew teaches a form of it. It balmes the victim for the most part. It reminds of of"you are acting hysterical" and gaslighting. Maybe read some critiques about it. https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communication-can-be-emotionally-violent/ https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communica... https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-privileged/ https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-pr...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - sethammons 2y ago
    The first link, that is a big stretch and misses half the response. They almost capture it and then flub to spread wrong information. They got this far: "I notice that when your partner talks to other men, you express feeling hurt and ask her not to. It sounds like you feel hurt and maybe even betrayed when she has those conversations. I hear that respect is really important to you, and you want to feel valued in the relationship." What they totally missed: Suggesting alternative strategies that meet both parties' needs without harm. "Can we explore ways for both of you to feel respected, while also honoring her autonomy and connections with others?" This is NOT emotionally abusive to the woman or lower-powered individual in the exchange. This is acknowledging the emotions of the abuser and still coming back to honoring the woman's unmet needs. These techniques have been used between waring tribes with family that has been murdered. The book has a particularly harrowing passage about NVC saving a near-rape-and-murder victim. The second link is marginally better but I disagree on nearly every point. Instead of writing a counter post for each, but to say that overall I think they missed the message of the book. They seem set on the word choice and power dynamics. Word choice is mostly unrelated: it is conveying unmet needs and acknowledging the unmet needs of others. Simple as that. And then to go on about body language as a point against NVC is strange as the NVC is about spoken communication. They are digging for reasons to talk against the book. I assume there is some agenda.
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      >They are digging for reasons to talk against the book. I assume there is some agenda. You have an agenda as well. The problem is that you need BOTH parties to engage in NVC for it to work. and what happens is the person who does not want to use NVC is blamed. This is denying the person their agency.
      - sethammons 2y ago
        I feel that you desire agency on both parties. I believe that agency already exists. Like: "Let's play a game"; "I don't want to"; .... "ok?" NVC, yes, is a cooperative framework. The agency is to accept that, propose something different, or withdraw from communication. This has nothing to do with denying agency. It is tooling for communicating needs. I don't find the criticism to make sense. Perhaps you can help me understand by proposing an alternative or let me know where I am not understanding

nicbou 2y ago

I haven't read NVC, but "stating unmet needs" is a strong aspect of "No more Mr. Nice Guy" and "Models". Being up front about who you are and what you want is a lot more likely to work than being nice and hoping your needs are met in the way that you expect. It's also a way to cut your losses early if the other person is not interested in providing whatever you're after.